Do You Feel This Way Sometimes?

M

MR.KAZ

Lurker
Hello Members,

Being a Christian I believe with every fiber of my being that the Messiah is going to make a second coming.I know that when it comes to the Father,a day is like a thousand years,and a thousand years is like a day.Which means time means nothing to Him,it's a human concept.Do any of you feel and wonder how much longer is God going put up with the evil and foul smell of sin,before he puts His foot down?

It is believed by some people that He is giving us more time to repent before it's too late.I guess that could be,but that fact does nothing to sooth the pain of waiting day after day for it to occur.

Maybe I'm just in a sad mood.Do any of you feel this way? :'(


God Bless,
MR.KAZ
 
I wonder why an all powerful all knowing God would have allowed sin to exist in the first place and why he would not allow those who are "not saved" into heaven.
 
Homicidal Cherry53 said:
I wonder why an all powerful all knowing God would have allowed sin to exist in the first place and why he would not allow those who are "not saved" into heaven.


Hi Homicidal,how are you?

It's not our fault that Adam and Eve screwed everything up for us,that's why sometimes I feel that we are paying for their mistakes,we didn't have a choice of where to go,we were placed here by God.Sometimes I feel that it's not fair for God to put us here.Adam and Eve messed up big time,and because of them we have sin,lust,greed.

Being a Christian,I believe that this is where Jesus steps in,he gave us a blessing in the truest sense of the word.He gave his life for us so that we can be forgiven by the Father when we sin(It Must Be Sincere Apologies When We Sin,You Can't Trick God.)It's a sad fact,but "Good" cannot happen if it weren't for "Sin".You can't have one without the other.

All I know is,I will believe in God as long I draw breath,because I know in my heart that he believes in us.
 
I sure don't want him coming back. The 2nd coming of Christ means GAME OVER for us all! I love Christ, but if you're gonna come up in my face and tell me THE END. You're gonna get your way, but I ain't going out like that! I GOT CHEESES TO EAT! PLACES TO BE!! LADIES TO KISS!! So Excuuuuuse me, I wanna live a good LONG life!
 
MegaDrive20XX said:
I sure don't want him coming back. The 2nd coming of Christ means GAME OVER for us all! I love Christ, but if you're gonna come up in my face and tell me THE END. You're gonna get your way, but I ain't going out like that! I GOT CHEESES TO EAT! PLACES TO BE!! LADIES TO KISS!! So Excuuuuuse me, I wanna live a good LONG life!

I agree...So much cheese, so little time :-[
 
MegaDrive20XX said:
I sure don't want him coming back. The 2nd coming of Christ means GAME OVER for us all! I love Christ, but if you're gonna come up in my face and tell me THE END. You're gonna get your way, but I ain't going out like that! I GOT CHEESES TO EAT! PLACES TO BE!! LADIES TO KISS!! So Excuuuuuse me, I wanna live a good LONG life!


There is "GAME OVER" but there is also "CONTINUE"?
 
I don't believe there is a second coming of Christ like THAT. I don't believe He will ever come "down" and say he's had enough and what not. I believe he uses sins to see who we really are, an evaluation of some sorts. Sounds crazy, I know =P.
 
MR.KAZ said:
There is "GAME OVER" but there is also "CONTINUE"?

According to the book of Revelation. No Continues, no quarters buddy. God or Jesus shows up, we're not gonna hear about it in the newspaper the next day or ANYTHING. That's IT. The end of the WORLD.
 
MegaDrive20XX said:
According to the book of Revelation. No Continues, no quarters buddy. God or Jesus shows up, we're not gonna hear about it in the newspaper the next day or ANYTHING. That's IT. The end of the WORLD.

As a Christian,I believe that it doesn't stop at the end of the world.I firmly believe in Heaven,our physical bodies are just vehicles for the soul to be able to walk the earth,explore the earth,do work on the earth,enrich our souls by using the earth to help us learn more about our souls and just exactly what it means to be alive.Don't read the Book Of Revelation looking for answers,what God wants us to do is take the time give an honest effort to try and understand.

The symbolism in the Book Of Revelation is extremely difficult to grasp.You can try looking at the ancient Greek and Hebrew texts to help,as Revelation extracts much of it's prophetic nature from the Old Testament.God would not make a chapter in the bible so confusing and frustrating,and ultimately impossible to understand,that wouldn't be fair now would it.It makes sense that God gives us a book in the terms that we can understand.
 
Homicidal Cherry53 said:
I wonder why an all powerful all knowing God would have allowed sin to exist in the first place and why he would not allow those who are "not saved" into heaven.

If an all powerful and all knowing being does exist, and has created our world thus, it would be quite foolish to question anything they do, seeing as how we are neither all powerful nor all knowing ourselves. Indeed, it would be doubly foolish to then cite our own incomprehension and lack of understanding as evidence for denying such a being's existence. Just because something does not make sense to us at first glance does not mean that there is no sense in it, even if after many glances we still do not see it. Especially if some authoritative source, say an all powerful all knowing being, is telling us there is, we would do well to listen to them. That is, of course, if such a being does exist.

Also, Sin, as Christians understand it, is not some stand alone product or item that was simply "created." Sin =/= immorality, rather sin is a conscious choice we (human beings) make to turn away from God, our creator and the sustainer of our life and existence. So when we "sin" we are effectively separating ourselves from God/Life, which is why the wages of "sin" are "death." So it is not as though God created "sin" and then expelled those who sinned from His kingdom. Rather, God gave us the freedom to do as we please, and when doing what we please leads us to sin we kill ourselves (not physically, the part of us that matters, "soul" if you will), which doesn't mean God will expel us from heaven, it means we are choosing not to go there.

----------------

But to answer your question, no Kaz, I don't ever really feel like that. The next time you do, I would recommend taking a few deep breaths, count a few of your blessings, and perhaps play a video game or two. If as a Christian you believe such things will come to pass, trust me when I say each person's own death and their final judgement will come soon enough, there's no need to be impatient. :lol
 
@Mr. Kaz, I can totally agree with what you say on there.

I just don't know why people always told me that's pretty much "The end" for everyone.
 
*God glasses on*

stealth toilet said:
Rather, God gave us the freedom to do as we please, and when doing what we please leads us to sin we kill ourselves (not physically, the part of us that matters, "soul" if you will), which doesn't mean God will expel us from heaven, it means we are choosing not to go there.

God has not given us, as humans, limitless freedom. We have physical limitations, and if he was willing to put those physical limitations on us and remove a certain amount of choice, I see no reason why he couldn't make sin impossible to commit. Sin is built upon actions that occur in the world he created. It would have been easy for him to disallow those actions altogether.

Rather, God gave us the freedom to do as we please, and when doing what we please leads us to sin we kill ourselves (not physically, the part of us that matters, "soul" if you will), which doesn't mean God will expel us from heaven, it means we are choosing not to go there.

This truly isn't a conscious choice though, in most cases. People frequently believe they are turning towards God, when, by the Christian definition, they are turning against him. It seems that everyone who "turns against God" is suffering because God didn't make it clear enough that he actually was God. I don't see how it is fair to present people with a choice when it was never clear which choice was correct.

*God glasses off*

If an all powerful and all knowing being does exist, and has created our world thus, it would be quite foolish to question anything they do, seeing as how we are neither all powerful nor all knowing ourselves. Indeed, it would be doubly foolish to then cite our own incomprehension and lack of understanding as evidence for denying such a being's existence. Just because something does not make sense to us at first glance does not mean that there is no sense in it, even if after many glances we still do not see it. Especially if some authoritative source, say an all powerful all knowing being, is telling us there is, we would do well to listen to them. That is, of course, if such a being does exist.
Sound logic if we are sure that he is an all-knowing all powerful being. We don't, however so unfairness or problems that I view in the system described just makes me question how all-knowing and all-powerful he is, if he even exists. I don't have the luxury of knowing every action the Bible describes God doing as just, so I certainly won't assume that he is all-knowing and all-powerful if I see what I consider to be injustice.
 
MegaDrive20XX said:
, but I ain't going out like that!

I liked the " I ain't goin out like that" part. lol
And I don't want the world to end, cuz I didn't get to see all the cool video games yet.



And,Kaz,I am sorry you are feeling in a sad mood. I hope you are able to get to cheer up soon here.



Homicidal Cherry53 said:
*God glasses on*

God has not given us, as humans, limitless freedom. We have physical limitations, and if he was willing to put those physical limitations on us and remove a certain amount of choice, I see no reason why he couldn't make sin impossible to commit. Sin is built upon actions that occur in the world he created. It would have been easy for him to disallow those actions altogether.

This truly isn't a conscious choice though, in most cases. People frequently believe they are turning towards God, when, by the Christian definition, they are turning against him. It seems that everyone who "turns against God" is suffering because God didn't make it clear enough that he actually was God. I don't see how it is fair to present people with a choice when it was never clear which choice was correct.

*God glasses off*
Sound logic if we are sure that he is an all-knowing all powerful being. We don't, however so unfairness or problems that I view in the system described just makes me question how all-knowing and all-powerful he is, if he even exists. I don't have the luxury of knowing every action the Bible describes God doing as just, so I certainly won't assume that he is all-knowing and all-powerful if I see what I consider to be injustice.

Yupper, I think you did a pretty good job of describing things here.
 
So that's how its going to be, is it? Alright, here we go... :lol

The following is how I imagine a learned and devout Christian would respond. Unfortunatly, I am neither, so what I have written is by no means 100% correct and true. It is my hope that it provides insight into the Christian perspective, and how one who has also asked these questions, yet remains a Christian, would respond.

Homicidal Cherry53 said:
Sin is built upon actions that occur in the world he created. It would have been easy for him to disallow those actions altogether.

Indeed this was the case before man came along. Angels that existed before humans had no choice in the matter, they had to obey God. Lucifer, upon seeing humanity's free will, became jealous because he felt he was more deserved of this. Thus, Adam and Eve (human beings) were presented with a choice, paradise/being in God's presence all the time, or pain and suffering a thousandfold/choosing not to be in God's presence most of the time. We made the wrong choice. Oh and also Adam and Eve did not have the physical limitations we do. I can't quite remember but I don't think they even needed to eat or sleep (could be wrong on that though). In any case I know they did not suffer from disease and old age or any of that, so yeah, again, we chose to be physically limited.

But I think your question is more asking "why would God present us with the choice in the first place?" To that I shall let C.S. Lewis (famous Christian Theologian) answer. In a book of his called "The Screwtape Letters" Lewis puts himself in the shoes of a "demon master" attempting to train an up and coming "demon n00b." These are of course abstractions of the human spirit, and are settings to provide discourse on matters such as the one you presented. The following excerpt should be of interest.

"To us [demons] a human is primarily food; our aim is the absorption of its will into ours, the increase of our own area of selfhood at its expense. But the obedience which the Enemy [God] demands is quite a different thing. One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as we would like to believe) mere propoganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself--creatures [us] whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because He has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons... Merely to over-ride a human will (as His felt prescence in any but the faintest and most mitigated degree would certainly do) would be for Him useless. He cannot ravish. He can only woo. For His ignoble idea [is for] the creatures to be one with Him, but yet themselves; merely to cancel them, or assimilate them, will not serve... He leaves the creatures to stand up on its own legs... He cannot "temp" to virtue as we do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away his hand."

In other words, God wants more for us than to be mere sheep. He could bind us by taking away our free will, yes, but that would not serve His purpose; for us to be one with Him (perfect), and yet ourselves.

Homicidal Cherry53 said:
This truly isn't a conscious choice though, in most cases. People frequently believe they are turning towards God, when, by the Christian definition, they are turning against him. It seems that everyone who "turns against God" is suffering because God didn't make it clear enough that he actually was God. I don't see how it is fair to present people with a choice when it was never clear which choice was correct.

I hope this does not come off as sardonic, but have you heard of a guy called Jesus, and a book known as the Bible? Have you ever been to a church, seen people praying, or have had Christians (perhaps in self-proclamation only, but nonetheless) come to your door with the express purpose of talking to you about such things? How much more explicit could it be? How many avenues does God need to create for human beings to figure out how to become closer to Him before they'll finally take some personal responsibility for their belligerent separation from Him? God did not make it clear enough? Really? He sent his only son to earth to set the record straight 2000 years ago, who then put 12 people in charge of spreading that record around the world so that everyone would have a chance to hear it. And right now, 2000 years later, I'd say they've done a pretty good job. Saying "I didn't know" is really no excuse for us, both for you and I specifically and as human beings in general. The answers to our questions are there, it is our own fault if we actively avoid learning them.

But even aside from all the scriptures, witnesses, organized outreaches, and so forth, God's presence is still quite visible. Perhaps our eyes and ears do not see or hear God in such conventional terms, but if we truly look and truly listen the evidence is pretty clear. People are much more inclined to believe in intangible concepts, such as "luck" or "chance," than they are to believe that those happenings have reason and logic to them. For reason and logic were given to us so that we may be led to God, but the longer and harder we fight seeing reason and logic the more we can feign ignorance to how our thoughts and actions are separating us from God. Saying "I didn't know" is a lie, because even that which we do know for certain (stealing is bad, murder is bad, loving our neighbour is good, being kind and generous is good) we still readily avoid. When we can't even do the simple things, which have immediate and real positive effects on ourselves and those around us, how can we accuse God of not making the more complicated and difficult stuff clear?

Homicidal Cherry53 said:
Sound logic if we are sure that he is an all-knowing all powerful being. We don't, however so unfairness or problems that I view in the system described just makes me question how all-knowing and all-powerful he is, if he even exists. I don't have the luxury of knowing every action the Bible describes God doing as just, so I certainly won't assume that he is all-knowing and all-powerful if I see what I consider to be injustice.

Indeed, which is why the first commandment of the Bible states thus: "I am the lord your God." A lot of people see this as rather odd, why a compassionate God who loves us would command us so decisively and immediately make following Him exclusive. For if you can't accept the fact that God is who He says He is (all knowing and all powerful) then all His teachings will be useless for you. Instead of relying on superior understanding you rely on your own, which fails you, and therefore it is imperative that anyone who wants to walk towards God (remember, God=Life) first accept that God/Life exists. Its not a command, its a cornerstone and linchpin of living happily and fulfilled. We don't know God exists in the quantitative sense, again that would defeat the purpose of our creation, but one is also not required to assume anything. Faith is something that is generally misunderstood (as sin is) as a belief in something that defies logic, reason, observation, and reality. In fact, faith is something that is cultivated through careful analysis of those four aspects. Faith in God is a conclusion, that an explanation for certain conditions, no matter how improbable, must be the true one if no other explanation sufficiently meets those conditions. To deduce otherwise is to rely on assumption, and inevitably, error.

You are asking good questions, questions that all Christians ought to ask themselves. But merely asking the question does not assert that there is no answer, and the task of answering them should not rely on the knowledge of others. I would dare say on a matter such as this (life, the universe, and everything) you would owe it to yourself to pursue these answers as much as possible, and if one answer is found to be insufficient, find another. A lot of people cite Christianity, and "God," as an easy answer, a short and quick way to explain off natural phenomena and never do any real, critical thinking. The truth is of course quite the opposite. Why should spiritual salvation, deep happiness, everlasting life, ultimate truth, and all powerful beings be simple?
 
stealth toilet said:
I hope this does not come off as sardonic, but have you heard of a guy called Jesus, and a book known as the Bible? Have you ever been to a church, seen people praying, or have had Christians (perhaps in self-proclamation only, but nonetheless) come to your door with the express purpose of talking to you about such things? How much more explicit could it be? How many avenues does God need to create for human beings to figure out how to become closer to Him before they'll finally take some personal responsibility for their belligerent separation from Him? God did not make it clear enough? Really? He sent his only son to earth to set the record straight 2000 years ago, who then put 12 people in charge of spreading that record around the world so that everyone would have a chance to hear it. And right now, 2000 years later, I'd say they've done a pretty good job. Saying "I didn't know" is really no excuse for us, both for you and I specifically and as human beings in general. The answers to our questions are there, it is our own fault if we actively avoid learning them.

Everything becomes considerably less clear when there are countless other people walking around, claiming to know the word of God. Which (if any) word of God we should follow is not a clear choice. He has provided nothing to support Christianity besides a book, claiming to be the word of God (which most of the others also have) and nothing to prove the validity of that book, except the book itself. It is simply unreasonable to expect humans to flock to Christianity, when there is nothing to show that it is true, and ten other religions making the same claim as it that make as much sense as it (very little sense :lol). The Bible is the most common book in the world at this point, and it would be difficult for someone to avoid hearing it, but if they're already focused on another book that claims to be the word of God, it's going to fall on deaf ears. Through no fault of their own (unless you consider being born into a very religious, non-Christian family their fault), they are going to hell, if we are to believe the Bible. They are going to hell for following what they thought was the word of God and doing what they had always been told was right.

I agree with you in that the Bible is being preached in plenty of places today, but that simply does not make it obvious (or true) that Christianity is "God's word" and converting to it is "God's will". How are people supposed to know that they are going against the word of God if they don't know what the word of God is?

Saying "I didn't know" is a lie, because even that which we do know for certain (stealing is bad, murder is bad, loving our neighbour is good, being kind and generous is good) we still readily avoid. When we can't even do the simple things, which have immediate and real positive effects on ourselves and those around us, how can we accuse God of not making the more complicated and difficult stuff clear?

I'm not sure I really understand what you're getting at here.

Indeed, which is why the first commandment of the Bible states thus: "I am the lord your God." A lot of people see this as rather odd, why a compassionate God who loves us would command us so decisively and immediately make following Him exclusive. For if you can't accept the fact that God is who He says He is (all knowing and all powerful) then all His teachings will be useless for you. Instead of relying on superior understanding you rely on your own, which fails you, and therefore it is imperative that anyone who wants to walk towards God (remember, God=Life) first accept that God/Life exists.

Why should I blindly rely on understanding that has not yet been proven to exist or be superior? It is simply far too big of a jump, far too many baseless presumptions, for me to make.

I know nothing of God. I don't know if he exists. If he does, I don't know the extent of his powers. I don't know if he is infallible. I don't know if it is his word in the Koran, the Bible, the Torah, or the Vedas. I don't know if his understanding is superior. Given how little I know of "God", it is ridiculous for me to assume anything about him, nevermind the specifics that most religions refer to.

In other words, God wants more for us than to be mere sheep. He could bind us by taking away our free will, yes, but that would not serve His purpose; for us to be one with Him (perfect), and yet ourselves.

He has already taken away our free will to some extent by placing the physical limitations that exist upon us. If he found it acceptable to make a creature that could not fly without aid, why was it so unacceptable to create a creature that, for example, reproduced asexually. This would remove the need for marriage (getting rid of divorce also) and essentially every sin that is sexual in nature. This would not limit free will anymore than any other physical property God gave us, and it would make countless sins non-issues.

You are asking good questions, questions that all Christians ought to ask themselves. But merely asking the question does not assert that there is no answer, and the task of answering them should not rely on the knowledge of others. I would dare say on a matter such as this (life, the universe, and everything) you would owe it to yourself to pursue these answers as much as possible, and if one answer is found to be insufficient, find another. A lot of people cite Christianity, and "God," as an easy answer, a short and quick way to explain off natural phenomena and never do any real, critical thinking. The truth is of course quite the opposite. Why should spiritual salvation, deep happiness, everlasting life, ultimate truth, and all powerful beings be simple?
It is for many. There are those who follow sheepishly, and do use Christianity as an easy answer so that they don't have to look for another answer. There are others who do not, but there is a great deal of diversity among the two billion or so Christians in the world and attempting to generalize about all (or most for that matter) is pointless.
 
Hi Members!

I can't remember if I posted this before,if so my apologies.While we're on the subject I thought you might get a kick out of it.I read this somewhere:

".....God Is Dead..."

--Frederick Nietsche

"...Frederick Nietsche Is Dead...."

--God
 
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