Redefining Success: who's really winning the console war?

C

creepindeth04

Moderator
With all the talk of what is success going around, I thought this article would shed a new perspective to things. It's a good read. Here are some excerpts:

So what's the truth? Which set of numbers counts most? Nintendo nets millions on gaming each year; MS loses billions. But MS's console outsells Nintendo's. So who's the winner here?
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Corporations only lose when they cease to be competitive. Both Nintendo and MS are doing just fine moving into the next generation; the Xbox 360 offers hardcore gamers prettier graphics and, more importantly, the most rewarding online experience available. The Revolution is taking a totally different route by cashing on Nintendo's cachet among casual gamers. And both companies are prepared nicely to hold their own against Sony -- MS by hitting Sony right where it hurts (i.e. the lack of a clearly-stated online vision for PS3 online), Nintendo by totally blowing off the PS3's market and carving an entirely new niche.

In other words, they're both doing fine. One might even go so far as to call them winners.
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Source: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3147953&did=1
 
You know what? I declare all three a success.....seriously....by all means I'm a PS2 fanboy...but you can't deny Nintendo's great games and Xbox's 360.

Nice article creepin. :)
 
Thanks Strubes. This part of the article made me smile

In fact, it looks like the only losers here are those gamers who get so hung up on numbers and bragging rights that they forget how to enjoy all the great games these companies keep churning out. Seriously, guys -- it totally sucks to be you.
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Ok, here's the thing. Everyone that posts at these boards is a fan of videogames first and foremost, that's a given. Name out any console and it's almost a guarantee everyone here will have a favorite game for that system (unless they never played it). We don't need to assert the fact that there are facets about every console that we like, because it's pretty much a given.

Articles like this just try to promote riding the fence. They try to say it's ok to not have an opinion either way, because both are right. That's fine and daddy until someone asks you to choose btw the two, in a hypothetical sort of way. That, in turn, forces you to pick a favorite, be it completely arbitrary or grounded in some kind of personal preference. Then most likely if they don't agree with you, they'll ask you to justify your answer. When threads are asking you which company you think is more successful a response that merely states they're all successful in some way is not answering the question. We know they're all successful in their own ways, but in your opinion pick one that you think is the most successful and say why, that's what the person who asked the question wants to know.

In fact, it looks like the only losers here are those gamers who get so hung up on numbers and bragging rights that they forget how to enjoy all the great games these companies keep churning out. Seriously, guys -- it totally sucks to be you.
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When I sit down to play a game I don't give a hoot about how many units of it were sold or whether my console of choice is the most popular. But when I come to an online forum where people discuss everything related to videogames, hearing other people's opinions about what they think is the best/worst is what I expect, and even enjoy about online forums. To say that anyone is so caught up in numbers of relative success that they don't enjoy games is not only uninformed but condescending, because no one in their right mind would care at all about a game company's fiscal year if they didn't enjoy videogames to begin with.

And personally, I don't see what sucks about having an opinion and voicing it.
 
stealth toilet said:
Ok, here's the thing. Everyone that posts at these boards is a fan of videogames first and foremost, that's a given. Name out any console and it's almost a guarantee everyone here will have a favorite game for that system (unless they never played it). We don't need to assert the fact that there are facets about every console that we like, because it's pretty much a given.

Articles like this just try to promote riding the fence. They try to say it's ok to not have an opinion either way, because both are right. That's fine and daddy until someone asks you to choose btw the two, in a hypothetical sort of way. That, in turn, forces you to pick a favorite, be it completely arbitrary or grounded in some kind of personal preference. Then most likely if they don't agree with you, they'll ask you to justify your answer. When threads are asking you which company you think is more successful a response that merely states they're all successful in some way is not answering the question. We know they're all successful in their own ways, but in your opinion pick one that you think is the most successful and say why, that's what the person who asked the question wants to know.

When I sit down to play a game I don't give a hoot about how many units of it were sold or whether my console of choice is the most popular. But when I come to an online forum where people discuss everything related to videogames, hearing other people's opinions about what they think is the best/worst is what I expect, and even enjoy about online forums. To say that anyone is so caught up in numbers of relative success that they don't enjoy games is not only uninformed but condescending, because no one in their right mind would care at all about a game company's fiscal year if they didn't enjoy videogames to begin with.

And personally, I don't see what sucks about having an opinion and voicing it.
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You're right but I dont think that's what this article was trying to say. It's easy to define a console's success by it's sales and that's how it should be but things get blurred when strategies like MS are using are thrown into the mix. I think it was trying to say that it's not so easy to define success anymore and that we should all just go and play what we like and not care whether or not a console is successful and start only supporting a certain system because of it's success. I think it's times like this where people "at first" should ride the fence until they can clearly see which console offers more bang for their buck. It's not saying you can't voice your opinion but that most who claim that a certain system is a failure based on sales figures is not a good argument anymore and that they only way to measure success is to see the games and features. And in MS's case how many units are in households.
 
I'll say this with honesty, Sony is winning. They have been since 1995, no matter what, the overall total of sales here in the USA and Worldwide point to Sony's Playstation and PS2.

Yet, if you want the console most sold world wide....GameBoy (original) and GameboyAdvance is your answer..that's how I feel about where Nintendo's real money came from. I didn't include GBC, because the numbers weren't as great as GB and GBA
 
It's easy to define a console's success by it's sales and that's how it should be but things get blurred when strategies like MS are using are thrown into the mix.
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I think you meant profit, because strategies like MS's undoubtedly work when it comes to sales.

I think it was trying to say that it's not so easy to define success anymore
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Right, that's why we talk about it. If there was a clear cut winner then there would be no point in bringing it up. Everyone throws their two cents into the mix and we talk about the opinions we agree and disagree with. Through discussion we form our own opinions on the subject, that's the point (to me anyway).

we should all just go and play what we like and not care whether or not a console is successful and start only supporting a certain system because of it's success.
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I don't know of a single person that does otherwise. It's a moot point, it goes without saying, and it's nothing but redundant to repeat it.

It's not saying you can't voice your opinion but that most who claim that a certain system is a failure based on sales figures is not a good argument anymore and that they only way to measure success is to see the games and features.
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It sounds to me like you've formed an ideology based around the quality of gaming experience the company provides and it's success, and that in your mind there is one company that does this best. So which is it, MS, Sony, or Nintendo? That's what people want to know when they ask what company you think is the most successful. Obviously I believe sales numbers are the best way I can think of rating a console's success, that's my ideology, and I believe it to be right. So tell me yours, because I'm curious to see what you think of the current companies and their relative success.

and my opinion is that all systems have their strong points.
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Ya, that's mine too, and pretty much everyone else's. I mean, we can all agree that Nintendo offers the best 1st party games, that Sony offers the biggest choice of games, and the Microsoft offers the best online play. These are the various strengths of the respective companies, they are so widely agreed upon they are practically facts. So which is the most important to you, 1st party Nintendo titles, playing online, or playing a wide variety of games? Perhaps the controller determines you're preference, maybe the hardware power itself, maybe you think the company's success is better determined by it's marketing strategy, or profit margins, I don't know what it is you think, but I do want to find out. So instead of riding the fence saying you can see strengths in all the consoles tell me which ones you like the most, and if you don't have an opinion either way then don't answer threads that ask "Which company is the most successful?"
 
So instead of riding the fence saying you can see strengths in all the consoles tell me which ones you like the most, and if you don't have an opinion either way then don't answer threads that ask "Which company is the most successful?"
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cause I have an opinion. and since we're talkin bout which is the most successful, I can certainly say they all were very successful.
 
Well, Sony has the market plurality (or is it majority), am I right?

Anyways, I would say they are deadlocked at the moment, with Nintendo being slightly towards the losing end ATM and Sony leaning towards the winning.
 
stealth toilet said:
I think you meant profit, because strategies like MS's undoubtedly work when it comes to sales.
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Yeah you're right I did mean profit. I know that MS's strategy is working even though they are losing money. In the end they make their money off of software and licensing.

Right, that's why we talk about it. If there was a clear cut winner then there would be no point in bringing it up. Everyone throws their two cents into the mix and we talk about the opinions we agree and disagree with. Through discussion we form our own opinions on the subject, that's the point (to me anyway).
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You're right again, but I dont think the whole point of the article is to completely keep people from debating. Like I said it's just another perspective.

I don't know of a single person that does otherwise. It's a moot point, it goes without saying, and it's nothing but redundant to repeat it.
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There are quite a few people who do mostly the extreme fanboys of certain systems. I wasn't saying that towards anybody here or that I know personally.

It sounds to me like you've formed an ideology based around the quality of gaming experience the company provides and it's success, and that in your mind there is one company that does this best. So which is it, MS, Sony, or Nintendo? That's what people want to know when they ask what company you think is the most successful. Obviously I believe sales numbers are the best way I can think of rating a console's success, that's my ideology, and I believe it to be right. So tell me yours, because I'm curious to see what you think of the current companies and their relative success.
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I think you're confusing most successful with favorites. In my opinion Sony is my favorite and the most successful because of what they are brought to the gaming world. Though now with the launch of the 360, and the Revolution out by the end of the year, I might change my mind soon. Sometimes I think of success by what a company or console brings to the gaming industry. Like the article said competition is good and it only helps the others become better. And I believe Sony pushed them to be better.

Ya, that's mine too, and pretty much everyone else's. I mean, we can all agree that Nintendo offers the best 1st party games, that Sony offers the biggest choice of games, and the Microsoft offers the best online play. These are the various strengths of the respective companies, they are so widely agreed upon they are practically facts. So which is the most important to you, 1st party Nintendo titles, playing online, or playing a wide variety of games? Perhaps the controller determines you're preference, maybe the hardware power itself, maybe you think the company's success is better determined by it's marketing strategy, or profit margins, I don't know what it is you think, but I do want to find out. So instead of riding the fence saying you can see strengths in all the consoles tell me which ones you like the most, and if you don't have an opinion either way then don't answer threads that ask "Which company is the most successful?"
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Again you're thinking of favorites. And I dont ride the fence when it comes to voicing my opinion on who I think is the most successful. I'll gladly answer. Again I think the article was more of the target to extreme fanboys who do ride the fence and only feel that it's the only system that should even be in existence. Sure people have favorites but some people out there take this to the point of flaming one another and bashing people for their opinions. I think the article was really trying to say that people not keep themselves from buying another console just because it's not the most successful.
 
I think you're confusing most successful with favorites.
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Perhaps I'm being unclear, hear me out on this. This thread has generally been trying to get the point across that there is no definitive way to determine success, correct? The article itself you posted spoke of the fact that it's not a black and white issue, that there are dozens of gray areas, right? What I'm saying is that because there is no definite "right" or "wrong" determinate of success, that it is really up to the individual to decide what they think makes a company successful. It can be based completely off of their own biases, or it could be based off of certain fiscal data, or some other factor I haven't even considered.

So, yes, in some ways I am speaking of "favorites," because generally people believe that their favorite system is the most successful, whether they rate success by quality of games, quantity of games, profit margins, a combination of all of those, something else entirely, whatever. The article you posted said that because of the fact that there is no "clear cut winner" (to quote myself) there really is no point in discussing it at all, because people will never all agree on one thing. What I'm saying is that is exactly why we should discuss it.

I don't rate success the same way you do, so let's try and understand where we are each coming from.

There are quite a few people who do mostly the extreme fanboys of certain systems. I wasn't saying that towards anybody here or that I know personally.
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I don't know of any extreme fanboys that play certain systems just because they think they're successful. I believe that everyone's opinion, even an extreme fanboy's, is still grounded in fun. They have to have fun with the system before they'll defend it, especially to the extent that they do.

And I dont ride the fence when it comes to voicing my opinion on who I think is the most successful. I'll gladly answer.
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I was responding to Strubes on that one.

Again you're thinking of favorites
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Because I understand the subjectivity of the word "success." As I've stated already, our opinions on success are at the heart of the issue, and opinions are formed from biases, so favoritism does play a big part. Keep in mind this is not a bad thing.

Well, Sony has the market plurality (or is it majority), am I right?
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Last time I checked it was a majority. Perhaps they've slumped since, but as far as I know PS2 sales > Xbox sales + GC sales.

cause I have an opinion. and since we're talkin bout which is the most successful, I can certainly say they all were very successful.
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But the word most implies a sequence, a way of categorizing something, as in from most to least. It's not like you can say the Republican party had the most votes last election, but the democrats had the most votes too. You can definitely say they both had a lot of votes (or that they both ran successful campaigns), but you can't say that they both got the most votes (or that they're both the most successful). Do you see what I'm saying? I understand that you think all three companies are equally successful, but do you at least understand why I'm saying an opinion like that holds no sway in a discussion about which company is the most successful?
 
stealth toilet said:
Perhaps I'm being unclear, hear me out on this. This thread has generally been trying to get the point across that there is no definitive way to determine success, correct? The article itself you posted spoke of the fact that it's not a black and white issue, that there are dozens of gray areas, right? What I'm saying is that because there is no definite "right" or "wrong" determinate of success, that it is really up to the individual to decide what they think makes a company successful. It can be based completely off of their own biases, or it could be based off of certain fiscal data, or some other factor I haven't even considered.

So, yes, in some ways I am speaking of "favorites," because generally people believe that their favorite system is the most successful, whether they rate success by quality of games, quantity of games, profit margins, a combination of all of those, something else entirely, whatever. The article you posted said that because of the fact that there is no "clear cut winner" (to quote myself) there really is no point in discussing it at all, because people will never all agree on one thing. What I'm saying is that is exactly why we should discuss it.

I don't rate success the same way you do, so let's try and understand where we are each coming from.
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I understand where you're coming from and Im not trying disprove your opinion. The reason I posted this article was merely to show another perspective. I wasn't trying to say that this is the only opinion that matters. Even though I quoted that one part about every console being successful, my point of that was to show that sometimes people rely way too much on numbers and less on reviews and opinions of other people. For example, the PS2. It is clearly the winner as far as sales go but if you ask people on the street who play games there will be people who prefer the xbox. But I have seen some people claim the xbox is inferior simply because it's not the best seller. When in fact it's up to the people themselves to determine that.

I don't know of any extreme fanboys that play certain systems just because they think they're successful. I believe that everyone's opinion, even an extreme fanboy's, is still grounded in fun. They have to have fun with the system before they'll defend it, especially to the extent that they do.
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I do and they reside on the internet. Yes I know the internet isn't reliable but they are there and places get nasty when in the end nobody is either right or wrong because it's all just opinions.

I was responding to Strubes on that one.
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Ok cool. But either way you know my stance. :D

Because I understand the subjectivity of the word "success." As I've stated already, our opinions on success are at the heart of the issue, and opinions are formed from biases, so favoritism does play a big part. Keep in mind this is not a bad thing.

Last time I checked it was a majority. Perhaps they've slumped since, but as far as I know PS2 sales > Xbox sales + GC sales.

But the word most implies a sequence, a way of categorizing something, as in from most to least. It's not like you can say the Republican party had the most votes last election, but the democrats had the most votes too. You can definitely say they both had a lot of votes (or that they both ran successful campaigns), but you can't say that they both got the most votes (or that they're both the most successful). Do you see what I'm saying? I understand that you think all three companies are equally successful, but do you at least understand why I'm saying an opinion like that holds no sway in a discussion about which company is the most successful?
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i understand what you're saying but I think it does hold sway because they all can be successful in certain areas that other consoles are not. That's how I took the article.
 
stealth toilet said:
But the word most implies a sequence, a way of categorizing something, as in from most to least. It's not like you can say the Republican party had the most votes last election, but the democrats had the most votes too. You can definitely say they both had a lot of votes (or that they both ran successful campaigns), but you can't say that they both got the most votes (or that they're both the most successful). Do you see what I'm saying? I understand that you think all three companies are equally successful, but do you at least understand why I'm saying an opinion like that holds no sway in a discussion about which company is the most successful?
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Yes, I understand that, but I'm not trying to sway anyone to believe one was more successful.
 
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