Do You Feel This Way Sometimes?

MR.KAZ said:
Hi Members!

I can't remember if I posted this before,if so my apologies.While we're on the subject I thought you might get a kick out of it.I read this somewhere:

".....God Is Dead..."

--Frederick Nietsche

"...Frederick Nietsche Is Dead...."

--God
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You did already post it, and like I said in the topic itself, Nietsche was no atheist. He believed that God's (and the Church's) influence on society would disappear in the coming centuries. It was more of a lamentation about (what he viewed as) Christianity's waning influence than him saying God was literally physically dead.
 
I was going to leave this topic stand as I feel a lot of what you said I have already adressed, but as I drink my morning cup of coffee there is very little in the news which is grabbing my attention. So for some quality discussion I will respond to some (if not all) of what you said, HC. Once again, I provide what I would imagine an educated Christian response would be, separate from my own beliefs at times, and certainly up for debate with what other Christians believe.

Homicidal Cherry53 said:
Everything becomes considerably less clear when there are countless other people walking around, claiming to know the word of God. Which (if any) word of God we should follow is not a clear choice. He has provided nothing to support Christianity besides a book, claiming to be the word of God (which most of the others also have) and nothing to prove the validity of that book, except the book itself. It is simply unreasonable to expect humans to flock to Christianity, when there is nothing to show that it is true, and ten other religions making the same claim as it that make as much sense as it (very little sense laugh). The Bible is the most common book in the world at this point, and it would be difficult for someone to avoid hearing it, but if they're already focused on another book that claims to be the word of God, it's going to fall on deaf ears. Through no fault of their own (unless you consider being born into a very religious, non-Christian family their fault), they are going to hell, if we are to believe the Bible. They are going to hell for following what they thought was the word of God and doing what they had always been told was right.
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There are many distractions and obstacles in discerning truth from lies. The Bible itself says this. God Himself knows this. Discovering ultimate truth is not going to be something that is easy, and in fact the people who have come closest to doing so are often the people who see how very far away from it they truly are. But human beings make it a lot harder on themselves than it needs to be (see Genesis, fall of Adam and Eve). Refuting an idea because of one's own ignorance on the matter can be a terrible mistake, it is also a very common one, even though history proves that all great ideas are resisted and ignored before they are understood. It is therefore reasonable to determine that the greatest truth, the one which is hardest to prove but also impossible to ignore, will be met with a lot of resistance particularly from those who do not want to understand it. Yes there are frauds, people who are eager to profit from other people's ignorance, and others who honestly believe they understand, but in fact don't (these are probably the worse of the two, for a con-man is exposed in his lie and it is clear he doesn't understand, while the honest believer who is exposed as incorrect makes it appear as though everyone who believes is incorrect) but these people are the very ones whose mistakes we are supposed to learn from, so as not to make the same ones ourselves. So it is that they are not obstacles, or impediments, to our own understanding, but they are stepping stones, and through their mistakes we come closer to it.

To say that there is no evidence with which to substantiate the existence of God is to tell a deaf person sound does not exist because they cannot hear it, or a blind person light does not exist because they can't see it. Certainly God's existence can't be proven through direct observation, but that exposes several flaws in how human beings currently view the scientific method. Firstly, that for a thing to exist it must be observed, quantified, and reproduced. Secondly, that all things of worth can fit into this rigid view of the universe. And lastly, that our own, current, human inability to directly observe a thing's existence not only means that it does not exist now, but that it never will and that we will never be able to observe it, ever (even, say, after we die).

None of this holds true to any number of understandings. Firstly, human beings as a whole admit that we still know very little about ourselves, the planet we inhabit, the other inhabitants of that planet, the other planets of the galaxy, the galaxy itself, the origins of that galaxy, and so forth, so it is inaccurate to say God doesn't exist because we can't directly observe Him when we believe in a number of other things we haven't yet directly observed (for example, one cannot see a black hole, but based on its effect of the surrounding area we can indirectly determine where one must be located). So why the double standard when it comes to God? Secondly, God has provided a number of direct and indirect ways of observing Him. Jesus, the Bible, the 12 disciples, the church, everyday miracles, extraordinary miracles, unexplained events, answered prayers, and so on. So if someone were to say black holes cannot exist because they cannot be seen is to defy the very nature of the black hole, that its gravity is so intense even light cannot escape it. To say God doesn't exist because we can't sense Him in the same way we sense other things which exist is to defy the very nature of God, inconceivable to the fallible, human mind. But in each case the thing is proven to exist by its effect on its surroundings. For a black hole, the space and time which are in a certain proximity to it. For God, everything. Everything is evidence of His existence.

Even if one tries very, very hard to resist learning that 1 + 1 must equal 2, sooner or later the answer becomes apparent.

Also, the idea that you should not believe in God, become a good Christian, and go to heaven, because someone else might not do the same, is both dangerous for you and also for that other person. A Christian's focus is not set on judging other people and trying to figure out if God's judgement will be the same, a Christian is focused on helping other people in whatever way they need. If they are hungry, a Christian should give them food. If they are thirsty, a drink of water. If they are spiritually hungry and thirsty, then some scripture would be in order. A Christian does not spend their time wondering if other people are Christians as well, a Christian simply tries to live a life of humility, charity, and kindness. And if you are truly worried about someone else going to hell because they are not a Christian (though you should not be so sure of your own passage to heaven to just yet) then the best way to convert them would be by being the best Christian you possibly can, not refuting that lifestyle altogether. In the worst case scenario, if you are "wrong," you've spent your entire life helping other people and inspiring them to do the same (which probably made you a pretty happy person, if not popular and well respected as well). Would you really want to have lived differently?

And now that half a pot of coffee has been entirely ingested, I really must leave it at that. I hope you find my points thought provoking, or at least worth the 10 minute read... :lol
 
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