Harry Potter (May Contain Spoilers)
stealth toilet
Moderator
Re: Harry Potter
Before the book came out the major "twist" at the end leaked onto the internet, and through some "funny" friends of mine I was told what it was. Kind of made the 6th book a dud for me...
My favorite book is the 4th one, followed closely by the 5th. And I think the 7th is gonna be pretty brutal, it sounds like it's going to have the plot of a bad videogame. I won't spoil anything, so if you don't understand what I mean, PM me. But for me, I think the HP series has hit it's high point and is now on the decline.
Before the book came out the major "twist" at the end leaked onto the internet, and through some "funny" friends of mine I was told what it was. Kind of made the 6th book a dud for me...
My favorite book is the 4th one, followed closely by the 5th. And I think the 7th is gonna be pretty brutal, it sounds like it's going to have the plot of a bad videogame. I won't spoil anything, so if you don't understand what I mean, PM me. But for me, I think the HP series has hit it's high point and is now on the decline.
creepindeth04
Moderator
Re: Harry Potter
Just change the topic name to include "Spoilers" in it. That way anybody who has read can come in and discuss.
Just change the topic name to include "Spoilers" in it. That way anybody who has read can come in and discuss.
So now that I can talk about the book without worrying about ruining it for anyone..... lol
I wonder how they are going to end the series with the last book. I read an article where a person seems to believe that Snape was told by Dumbledore to kill him. I will post it up soon. I really like the 6th book though, I couldnt put it down at the end.
I wonder how they are going to end the series with the last book. I read an article where a person seems to believe that Snape was told by Dumbledore to kill him. I will post it up soon. I really like the 6th book though, I couldnt put it down at the end.
maiden fan
All Hail Eddie
I told you it got good at the end
Snape- A dirty liar or a brilliant strategist?
posted by Monkeyboy590 on 1/4 6:12 PM
Okay. I'm one of those believers that Snape is still a good guy. In attempting to convince others of this as well, I have compiled a list of reasons why Snape is still on the good side, but has to hide it.
Let's try to keep this arguement free. But I have compiled a list of reasons why Snape is innocent, read them over and post what you think. I would like some feedback on them. Please post and tell me what you think about them as a whole, and the individual reasons. And, yes, I understand that some of the reasons aren't as good as others. (If you were wondering, I compiled these from posts on this site and an interview that is on www.mugglenet.com)
Here are the reasons that Snape is Good (Each number begins a new idea):
1. Consider Dumbledore's death, and Snape's attitude towards being the cause of it. He had "hatred and revulsion" etched onto his face as he killed the wizard - but what if this was because he loathed WHAT he was about to do, not who he was going to do it to?
2. I think that when Dumbledore was pleading with Snape (it is out of Dumbledore's character to plead, I might add), he was steeling Snape to go through with the act so that Draco would not have to. It even says in the book that for the FIRST TIME, Harry heard Dumbledore pleading. This isn't in the nature of Dumbledore. He was probably just putting on a show for the Death Eaters, as I've mentioned above.
3. Snape blocks each in turn, and - as he blocks them - explains to harry why his attack has failed. Snape tells Harry that he cannot attack Death Eaters with the unforgivable curses (we were told why in 'OotP'), and that he needs to use non-verbal curses from behind occlumency. Harry is beginning to understand when he nearly succeeds in throwing a Levicorpus at his old master (a spell he found in Snape's old book).
--If Snape is really determined to escape, why is he telling Harry all this? And if Snape is really determined to shield Voldemort, why is he telling Harry precisely the skills he still needs to defeat the dark lord?
4. My own view is that the scene in which Dumbledore "pleads" parallels the scene in which Dumbledore extracts from Harry (with great effort, I might add) his promise that no matter what Dumbledore asks him to do, he will follow Dumbledore's orders. Dumbledore's so-called pleas are reminders to Snape of a similar promise.
5. You remember when Dumbledore told Harry to go and get Snape, that he didn't want Madam Promphrey but that he NEEDED Snape? Well, what if he wasn't talking about healing his injuries? What if his real intention of summoning Snape to Dumbledore was that Snape could kill Dumbledore so everyone could watch, and therefore assume Snape had returned to the dark side?
6. Hagrid tells Harry that he heard Snape and Dumbledore arguging. Snape was really reluctant to do something, but Dumbledore kept insisting that it had to be done. At a first glance, the reader might assume that they were referring to Snape playing double agent, but perhaps they're talking about Snape having to kill Dumbledore.
7. Throughout the book, Dumbledore constantly refers to his own mortality, how he is getting on with age, etc. In any case, I feel that Dumbledore was convinced that Snape's life was more imortant to "the cause" than his own. (And don't forget, given the unbreakable vow Snape was "forced" to make with Narcissa Malfoy, Snape would have died had he not killed Dumbledore.)
8. Since Dumbledore knows that the DADA job is cursed, and that nobody has ever lasted for more than a year, why, then, would he appoint Snape as the new DADA teacher if he (Dumbledore) hadn't already planned for Snape to leave at the end of the year? I mean to say, after Snape fulfilled the plan of killing Dumbledore, he couldn't very well stay, so he would have to flee.
9. Snape knew that if he didn't kill Dumbledore that he would die. He WAS a coward, and Harry calling him one moments after he had killed Dumbledore hit a nerve. He was disgusted with himself, I think, because he had killed one of the most powerful and most generous wizards that he would likely be on the good side of. Snape had been posing as a death eater so as to gain information on Voldemort, but now finds himself forced into actually going to Voldemort for real help, now that Dumbledore is dead and the whole Order knows that he killed him. Voldemort is the only wizard who can help/protect him, and Snape's terrified.
10. With Dumbledore gone, nobody is going to ever believe Snape to be good after all, are they? It took courage for Snape to kill Dumbledore (Harry called him a coward twice - the first time he ignored it, the second time - when the murder was mentioned - he got seriously pissed off). This was not only because it was killing Dumbledore, but also because it was sacrificing himself. Severus Snape can never openly rejoin the Order of the Phoenix.
11. At the end of the story, when Harry is chasing Snape and the death eaters, he calls Snape a coward, quite a few times, and ends up provoking Snape enough to do some serious wandwork. When you say that was because Snape actually WAS a coward, I'm afraid I must disagree with you there. You see, Snape did one of the bravest things of his life: he killed Dumbledore, even though he didn't want to. He only killed him because he was following Dumbledore's orders, and it took him a lot of courage to do that. So when Harry said, "Kill me like you killed him, coward", mentioning how Snape killed Dumbledore, of course, that was when Snape exploded.
12. Snape is very accomplished at occlumency, why would this be in the least importance, except for the fact that it makes him seem to be on one side and switch to another because no one knows what he's doing. He can easily fool Voldemort.
posted by Monkeyboy590 on 1/4 6:12 PM
Okay. I'm one of those believers that Snape is still a good guy. In attempting to convince others of this as well, I have compiled a list of reasons why Snape is still on the good side, but has to hide it.
Let's try to keep this arguement free. But I have compiled a list of reasons why Snape is innocent, read them over and post what you think. I would like some feedback on them. Please post and tell me what you think about them as a whole, and the individual reasons. And, yes, I understand that some of the reasons aren't as good as others. (If you were wondering, I compiled these from posts on this site and an interview that is on www.mugglenet.com)
Here are the reasons that Snape is Good (Each number begins a new idea):
1. Consider Dumbledore's death, and Snape's attitude towards being the cause of it. He had "hatred and revulsion" etched onto his face as he killed the wizard - but what if this was because he loathed WHAT he was about to do, not who he was going to do it to?
2. I think that when Dumbledore was pleading with Snape (it is out of Dumbledore's character to plead, I might add), he was steeling Snape to go through with the act so that Draco would not have to. It even says in the book that for the FIRST TIME, Harry heard Dumbledore pleading. This isn't in the nature of Dumbledore. He was probably just putting on a show for the Death Eaters, as I've mentioned above.
3. Snape blocks each in turn, and - as he blocks them - explains to harry why his attack has failed. Snape tells Harry that he cannot attack Death Eaters with the unforgivable curses (we were told why in 'OotP'), and that he needs to use non-verbal curses from behind occlumency. Harry is beginning to understand when he nearly succeeds in throwing a Levicorpus at his old master (a spell he found in Snape's old book).
--If Snape is really determined to escape, why is he telling Harry all this? And if Snape is really determined to shield Voldemort, why is he telling Harry precisely the skills he still needs to defeat the dark lord?
4. My own view is that the scene in which Dumbledore "pleads" parallels the scene in which Dumbledore extracts from Harry (with great effort, I might add) his promise that no matter what Dumbledore asks him to do, he will follow Dumbledore's orders. Dumbledore's so-called pleas are reminders to Snape of a similar promise.
5. You remember when Dumbledore told Harry to go and get Snape, that he didn't want Madam Promphrey but that he NEEDED Snape? Well, what if he wasn't talking about healing his injuries? What if his real intention of summoning Snape to Dumbledore was that Snape could kill Dumbledore so everyone could watch, and therefore assume Snape had returned to the dark side?
6. Hagrid tells Harry that he heard Snape and Dumbledore arguging. Snape was really reluctant to do something, but Dumbledore kept insisting that it had to be done. At a first glance, the reader might assume that they were referring to Snape playing double agent, but perhaps they're talking about Snape having to kill Dumbledore.
7. Throughout the book, Dumbledore constantly refers to his own mortality, how he is getting on with age, etc. In any case, I feel that Dumbledore was convinced that Snape's life was more imortant to "the cause" than his own. (And don't forget, given the unbreakable vow Snape was "forced" to make with Narcissa Malfoy, Snape would have died had he not killed Dumbledore.)
8. Since Dumbledore knows that the DADA job is cursed, and that nobody has ever lasted for more than a year, why, then, would he appoint Snape as the new DADA teacher if he (Dumbledore) hadn't already planned for Snape to leave at the end of the year? I mean to say, after Snape fulfilled the plan of killing Dumbledore, he couldn't very well stay, so he would have to flee.
9. Snape knew that if he didn't kill Dumbledore that he would die. He WAS a coward, and Harry calling him one moments after he had killed Dumbledore hit a nerve. He was disgusted with himself, I think, because he had killed one of the most powerful and most generous wizards that he would likely be on the good side of. Snape had been posing as a death eater so as to gain information on Voldemort, but now finds himself forced into actually going to Voldemort for real help, now that Dumbledore is dead and the whole Order knows that he killed him. Voldemort is the only wizard who can help/protect him, and Snape's terrified.
10. With Dumbledore gone, nobody is going to ever believe Snape to be good after all, are they? It took courage for Snape to kill Dumbledore (Harry called him a coward twice - the first time he ignored it, the second time - when the murder was mentioned - he got seriously pissed off). This was not only because it was killing Dumbledore, but also because it was sacrificing himself. Severus Snape can never openly rejoin the Order of the Phoenix.
11. At the end of the story, when Harry is chasing Snape and the death eaters, he calls Snape a coward, quite a few times, and ends up provoking Snape enough to do some serious wandwork. When you say that was because Snape actually WAS a coward, I'm afraid I must disagree with you there. You see, Snape did one of the bravest things of his life: he killed Dumbledore, even though he didn't want to. He only killed him because he was following Dumbledore's orders, and it took him a lot of courage to do that. So when Harry said, "Kill me like you killed him, coward", mentioning how Snape killed Dumbledore, of course, that was when Snape exploded.
12. Snape is very accomplished at occlumency, why would this be in the least importance, except for the fact that it makes him seem to be on one side and switch to another because no one knows what he's doing. He can easily fool Voldemort.
maiden fan
All Hail Eddie
i kind of thought that about snape any way but this guy made some good points to back it up
SpartanEvolved
SpartanEvolved
If he does, the series will officially suck. Dead people should stay dead, unless it is not 100% clear that the person is dead.
SpartanEvolved
SpartanEvolved
Cliffhanger series suck too. They make me so mad...cause I don't want to imagine what happens I want to know!
maiden fan
All Hail Eddie
i dont think Doumbledore will come back
but i was also wondering if he would go back to school or not in the next book
but i was also wondering if he would go back to school or not in the next book
stealth toilet
Moderator
:lol
As soon as I found out Dumbledore "died" I just said "He's gonna pull a Gandalf, or at the very least an Obi-wan. Mark my words, he will do something in the next book, despite the fact that he died in the previous one."
I didn't read through that whole synopsis of why Ganda... err, Dumbledore, was killed, but I skimmed it enough to say that I agree. I don't think Snape is evil, just for the simple fact that he could have killed dumbledore and harry many times on many occasions. I definitely think he's just being a double double agent, which makes him good. :lol
Long story short, Snape hasn't turned to the darkside, and Dumbledore dieing has only made him stronger than Vader... err, "Voledmort"... will ever be.
As well (now that you're done) what's all this BS about Harry having to go around collecting Horcruxes that are each gaurded by various obstacles, ala every single Zelda game in existence? I mean I thought sailing around collecting triforce pieces was lame enough backdrop for playing a game, but this is a book, the story is it's only entertainment asset! Seriously, did J.K. Rowling consult EA for help on her last book or what?
As soon as I found out Dumbledore "died" I just said "He's gonna pull a Gandalf, or at the very least an Obi-wan. Mark my words, he will do something in the next book, despite the fact that he died in the previous one."
I didn't read through that whole synopsis of why Ganda... err, Dumbledore, was killed, but I skimmed it enough to say that I agree. I don't think Snape is evil, just for the simple fact that he could have killed dumbledore and harry many times on many occasions. I definitely think he's just being a double double agent, which makes him good. :lol
Long story short, Snape hasn't turned to the darkside, and Dumbledore dieing has only made him stronger than Vader... err, "Voledmort"... will ever be.
As well (now that you're done) what's all this BS about Harry having to go around collecting Horcruxes that are each gaurded by various obstacles, ala every single Zelda game in existence? I mean I thought sailing around collecting triforce pieces was lame enough backdrop for playing a game, but this is a book, the story is it's only entertainment asset! Seriously, did J.K. Rowling consult EA for help on her last book or what?
Thats the thing though, the article tries stating that Snape hasnt turned evil. Possibly Dumbledore made Snape promise to murder him for he felt there was no other way. Its a possibility.
I also think Dumbledore will make some appearance in the next book. Maybe he will not come back but there is always a possibility of Harry having a really realistic dream or something... lol
I also think Dumbledore will make some appearance in the next book. Maybe he will not come back but there is always a possibility of Harry having a really realistic dream or something... lol