How Much Does It Take?

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MR.KAZ

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Listen everyone,

I understand this topic may not be suited for this forum but I want say that after experiencing things,studying scripture and science,I want to say that I am sick and tired of people(Not All)always requiring proof of God's and the Messiah's existence.

Every time some piece of spiritual and holy scripture,as well as material proof comes before us the first thing we have got to do is find several excuses(Which some scientific researchers candy coat their lack of faith by saying that it requires further study.People don't seem too have much difficulty in expressing their faith in the existence of aliens every time a stupid piece of metal is found in near Roswell.)

I've never seen a dead bears bones in the middle of the forest,but I believe bears exist,look at all the people running around that believe with every fiber of their being that Sasquatch exists,so why is it so difficult to believe with massive evidence in our world,that their is one true creator of everything?In closing,I am in no way a perfect human being,and I mean to sound like a "Bible Banger",but c'mon guys,is it really that difficult to believe?


Thank you for reading


God bless
 
MR.KAZ said:
Every time some piece of spiritual and holy scripture,as well as material proof comes before us
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It is "material proof", only to those who require none. If you already assume a god exists, then you think of these things as proof, but they often require to make the leap from non, to believer, in order to see them as proof. Although I hardly see how something arbitrary like that could be considered unequivocal proof.
MR.KAZ said:
People don't seem too have much difficulty in expressing their faith in the existence of aliens every time a stupid piece of metal is found in near Roswell.)
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Yes actually, I have very much difficulty, in believing that little green men are hidden at Area 51, when answers that require a far shorter leap of logic are there.
MR.KAZ said:
look at all the people running around that believe with every fiber of their being that Sasquatch exists...
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I personally never really got that. The odds of a large enough population to sustain the species exists, yet we cannot get a clear picture of it (meanwhile, we've manged to get clear pictures of all 50 of the California Condors that are still alive) are incredibly low.
MR.KAZ said:
so why is it so difficult to believe with massive evidence in our world...
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I haven't seen any of this "evidence" that isn't arbitrary.
MR.KAZ said:
that their is one true creator of everything?
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Obviously, something began a chain reaction that created the universe, but who's to say it was one thing? Who's to say it had to be intelligent? Who's to say it wasn't a mass of energy, that coincidentally changed into matter?
 
Lets see..... the scriptures say that God created all things...wouldn't your existence and the existence of a material universe be proof for you? I think this is the question you are asking MR.KAZ. But one would have to accept the Bible as an absolute, and many people in our modern society and culture don't believe in absolutes, or true truth. Many who really conscientiously don't even think about it or know how to verbalize it, hold this viewpoint. Even many Christians think this way. I think this is where a lot of the confusion and conflicts come from discussing such topics in a forum. Those Christians, I being one, that hold to God being real and has created a real external world. And He has created man as a real, personal being, that has a "mannishness" from which he can never escape. A real person that can experience the real world. Holding to the thinking and concept that the Bible is an absolute and trying to discuss this with others that do not hold this concept can get pretty hairy at times.There are many philosophical influences from many cultures that have formed the mainstream thinking of our society. Those who do not accept the viewpoint that there are absolutes may not except the existence of God. It is like two people trying to discuss food when one of them has only taken nourishment intravenously.

And the result is, it is hard to discuss such topics in a forum like this, there are some, or many, that get offended. Some come from a flaming attitude belittling others, with name calling, not giving respect. There are many different opinions that come from various backgrounds and it always seems that rather than open intelligent discussion taking place, many try to convince others to believe and accept their own viewpoint. With some it is a very touchy subject matter. And I don't think it is from the wide range of ages that are a part of a forum. There are plenty of adults that cannot discuss such topics without getting all worked up and bent out of shape. That is why many topics like this end up being locked and in some cases completely deleted from a forum.

I'm not saying that such topics should not be discussed, it just seems that there has never been a way of approaching and sticking to some form of rules that would result in a progressive intelligent discussion. No one seems to be able to just state their viewpoint and leave it at that. And I think that maybe I have rambled, or ranted, long enough in this post. :)
 
MR.KAZ said:
I understand this topic may not be suited for this forum but I want say that after experiencing things,studying scripture and science,I want to say that I am sick and tired of people(Not All)always requiring proof of God's and the Messiah's existence.
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Proof is undeniable. Until proof exists, you can doubt everything.
Every time some piece of spiritual and holy scripture,as well as material proof comes before us the first thing we have got to do is find several excuses
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Or we find the idiot who made it.
I've never seen a dead bears bones in the middle of the forest,but I believe bears exist
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That's a horrible example, you've seen proof that bears exist. Most notably in the news or a zoo.
look at all the people running around that believe with every fiber of their being that Sasquatch exists
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They're not really wrong, as there's no proof against it.
so why is it so difficult to believe with massive evidence in our world,that their is one true creator of everything?
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Massive evidence like...? Like it or not, science has nearly covered everything, and with proof, so at the moment, no matter how religious you are, science is leading God in explaining how we exist. By a lot.
,and I mean to sound like a "Bible Banger",
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Might wanna fix that.
but c'mon guys,is it really that difficult to believe?
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Yes.
 
There are two reasons that could answer your question, Kaz, as far as why many don't believe.

Answer one is the condition of the heart. There comes a time in one's life where they have said no so many times (whether they consciously realize it or not) that they are incapable of believing. God could place a Christian in their life, or send some sort of crisis into their life, or whatever, in an attempt to get that person to cry out to God. But when someone says no, God respects that decision. I mean, if someone who refuses to believe in God would consider Heaven Hell if they automatically went there. With that person, if they are openly hostile, it's time to change the subject and "shake the dust of your feet."

The second is a beligerant Christian. I drive by three churches when I go through town to get to work. One always has a sign on the marque that has a message in the tune of "turn or burn." People aren't bullied , coerced, or bargained into Heaven. It's purely a choice. Believe and be saved is what the Bible says. And that's that. And unfortunaltely some Christians have made it difficult for the rest of us believers to do our job, which is to spread the Gospel. It's hard to come in a scenario where someone has been slammed and talked down to and attempt to salvage the situation. Or be able to stand in front of a teenager who was thrown out of his house because his pastor dad couldn't railroad him into being a follower of Christ.

In short, I'd suggest lamenting to other believers. And never do it in front of unbelievers, because they would take it as a tantrum and be further turned off to the Christian faith.
 
Dart said:
And never do it in front of unbelievers, because they would take it as a tantrum and be further turned off to the Christian faith.
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Like myself.
 
Well first off, I always take everything with a grain of salt. Whether it be religious or scientific. There is plenty of junk science out there and I also believe there is plenty of junk religion beliefs as well.

Just because there is "evidence" doesn't mean that it is always proof. First we need to examine how reliable the source is and then go on from there. If we immediately believe everything people say because we need more reason to prove our faith then you end up being manipulated and you lose the true meaning of your faith, IMO.
 
I want to thank you all for your feedback,there are a lot of intelligent members in this forum.It's very important to me that you know that I am not trying to come across as lashing out at you fellow members,it's this kind of discussion that benefits us all as we are learning things about "Science"&"Religion" that has awesome gravity with respect to understanding who we truly are.
I am a very open minded person,I don't disrespect people's personal belief systems,they have every right in the world to believe and worship in the way they see fit.Religion Vs. Science will never end.It's up to us to understand and learn from both ends in order to live a life of significance and harmony and the pursuit to understand just what the hell we're existing for,and why.

We shouldn't be down here arguing science vs.religion,we must learn from both ends in order to understand life.The biggest mystery of all.As much as some people hate others because of their race or religion in the big picture,we are all going to need each other.Stop arguing which religion is better,or which race is more or less inferior,we all bleed red.

Please reply to this so that I know my words are not falling upon deaf ears. God bless,
Jason Edward Welch
 
It's all good Kaz. Just remember that Christ calls us to go to the weak in spirit and those who are suffering. People who feel that they don't need Christ are also saying that they don't want Him. And that's okay. We should respect that and move on.
 
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