Manhunt 2 Metareview for Wii, PS2

Mai Valentine said:
I think there are better ways to push the boundaries, but most developers just go for the easy way; ie nudity or violence.

Why aren't they pushing boundaries in other areas? Story-telling, or character development, for example. Gender roles, maybe. There still isn't a really great, well-known female lead character in an action game besides Lara Croft. Ubisoft tried pretty hard with Jade from Beyond Good & Evil...too bad the game wasn't a big hit.

To me it seems that Rockstar really isn't pushing any boundaries at all, because the violence/nudity angle is already overdone as it is.

I strongly agree. Those areas of gaming are being ignored so much these days. Since they mainly focus on how many weapons or way you can kill a man other than the point.

Yes, Beyond Good & Evil flopped badly, I guess it was due to the fact it was released during Holidays of 2003 when everything was cluttered by other major/popular titles. Which history has shown, many games have suffered that. What I would like to call "Ignorious-Gameus" or "Game that went ignored by the public".

The easy way out is truly overkill these days.
 
Wow, you guys really got your hate-on for Rockstar. I don't like Manhunt, I think the idea is stupid and the violence senseless, but Rockstar as a whole has created some pretty amazing games.

Adding sex/drugs/cursing to a game can just be a quick way of getting attention and appealing to teenagers, but at the same time it can be done in a way that adds realism. If you were actually in some sort of crime syndicate, or doing jobs for the mafia, and you got in a fight with someone, I don't think you'd be shouting words like "fiddlesticks" at them. I'm not saying that all games need this realism in them, in fact I didn't particularly enjoy San Andreas because it felt too realistic, but you can't make a semi-serious game about being a criminal and not have some elements of drugs/sex/bad words...
I love storyline and I'm used to a one way track. Giving people freedom to roam around and do whatever is boring to me.

Nothing new, just give you the same old stuff you played a thousand times. To hell with using your own imagination and creating a little fun, let's make playing a videogame as completely passive as watching TV. No surprises, or engaging thought processes of any kind, just run down one narrow hallway to the next initiating cutscenes. ::)

I get pretty sick and tired of hearing people talk about how Rockstar never makes games with storylines. Looking at their landmark series, GTA, they've always had great storylines involving various gang alliances, betrayals, and in my opinion, always forced you to think on your feet. The GTA series has been one of few series that have consistently found a way to give you the information needed to do a mission in an entertaining way. Instead of pulling a Rainbow Six and just giving you a ton of text to read before each mission Rockstar always found ways to give you critical information that actually developed the characters and storyline at the same time. The great part about GTA is that even if you don't like the story and it doesn't hold your attention, it doesn't matter, you can have countless hours of fun in those games without even touching the story.

And if story and linearity really is your forte, then pick up Max Payne. Rockstar makes games like that too.
Giving the gamer more replay value and to get used to your surroundings before going into the next city.

Actually, that's exactly how the game operates. You have to complete the story in one area before you move on to the next. I consider this a mistake, it just limits the amount of fun you can have right off the bat. However, the fact that you seem to be oblivious to this mechanic that does exist in every GTA game I've ever played, I sincerely question whether or not you have actually given any of the GTA games a chance, or if you're basing these opinions off of screenshots and hearsay.

That's another thing, games like CRACKDOWN, only fuel racism against hispanics.

Just Hispanics? The game also stereotypes Russian and Asian people too. It's not being racist, it's over the top characters coincides well with it's over the top action. It's just a setting, not a social commentary.

If I'm going to kill something in a game, it rather be an alien, soldier, zombie, monster, robot, etc.

I don't know about you, but I sleep much better at night "killing" a nameless CPU walking down the street in a city that doesn't even exist (liberty city, say) than I would if I killed a Vietnamese peasant who was trying to protect his rice field from a foreign invading army. In both cases, what someone may "learn" from performing the action in the game is ultimately wrong (killing), but doing it in a Rockstar game is no worse (sometimes better) than doing it in games made by any number of companies. Even looking at Call of Duty 4, where a British and American (Western empirical) force invades and kills people from the Middle East and Russia. I don't know about you but when I think about the message that sends to people around the globe I think the damage is far greater than that of GTA.

I don't like Manhunt, as I said, I think it's a dumb game. But Rockstar as a company has produced several games that were well received by fans and critics alike. I don't think it's fair to generalise and pass judgement on them because of Manhunt, and I think that if you really take a look at the games Rockstar puts out in comparison to other games that are out there, Rockstar games look very solid and fun. I don't think they intentionally try to push boundaries with their GTA series, I think that just naturally came with trying to create a living, breathing, criminalised world that the main character was active in.
 
I agree Mega, Rockstar's just a giant hype train and too many people buy into it. Oh well, that's why the GTA games are popular for like a month, then you can find them for $20 used.
 
stealth toilet said:
Wow, you guys really got your hate-on for Rockstar. I don't like Manhunt, I think the idea is stupid and the violence senseless, but Rockstar as a whole has created some pretty amazing games.

Adding sex/drugs/cursing to a game can just be a quick way of getting attention and appealing to teenagers, but at the same time it can be done in a way that adds realism. If you were actually in some sort of crime syndicate, or doing jobs for the mafia, and you got in a fight with someone, I don't think you'd be shouting words like "fiddlesticks" at them. I'm not saying that all games need this realism in them, in fact I didn't particularly enjoy San Andreas because it felt too realistic, but you can't make a semi-serious game about being a criminal and not have some elements of drugs/sex/bad words...
Nothing new, just give you the same old stuff you played a thousand times. To hell with using your own imagination and creating a little fun, let's make playing a videogame as completely passive as watching TV. No surprises, or engaging thought processes of any kind, just run down one narrow hallway to the next initiating cutscenes. ::)

I get pretty sick and tired of hearing people talk about how Rockstar never makes games with storylines. Looking at their landmark series, GTA, they've always had great storylines involving various gang alliances, betrayals, and in my opinion, always forced you to think on your feet. The GTA series has been one of few series that have consistently found a way to give you the information needed to do a mission in an entertaining way. Instead of pulling a Rainbow Six and just giving you a ton of text to read before each mission Rockstar always found ways to give you critical information that actually developed the characters and storyline at the same time. The great part about GTA is that even if you don't like the story and it doesn't hold your attention, it doesn't matter, you can have countless hours of fun in those games without even touching the story.

And if story and linearity really is your forte, then pick up Max Payne. Rockstar makes games like that too.
Actually, that's exactly how the game operates. You have to complete the story in one area before you move on to the next. I consider this a mistake, it just limits the amount of fun you can have right off the bat. However, the fact that you seem to be oblivious to this mechanic that does exist in every GTA game I've ever played, I sincerely question whether or not you have actually given any of the GTA games a chance, or if you're basing these opinions off of screenshots and hearsay.

Just Hispanics? The game also stereotypes Russian and Asian people too. It's not being racist, it's over the top characters coincides well with it's over the top action. It's just a setting, not a social commentary.

I don't know about you, but I sleep much better at night "killing" a nameless CPU walking down the street in a city that doesn't even exist (liberty city, say) than I would if I killed a Vietnamese peasant who was trying to protect his rice field from a foreign invading army. In both cases, what someone may "learn" from performing the action in the game is ultimately wrong (killing), but doing it in a Rockstar game is no worse (sometimes better) than doing it in games made by any number of companies. Even looking at Call of Duty 4, where a British and American (Western empirical) force invades and kills people from the Middle East and Russia. I don't know about you but when I think about the message that sends to people around the globe I think the damage is far greater than that of GTA.

I don't like Manhunt, as I said, I think it's a dumb game. But Rockstar as a company has produced several games that were well received by fans and critics alike. I don't think it's fair to generalise and pass judgement on them because of Manhunt, and I think that if you really take a look at the games Rockstar puts out in comparison to other games that are out there, Rockstar games look very solid and fun. I don't think they intentionally try to push boundaries with their GTA series, I think that just naturally came with trying to create a living, breathing, criminalised world that the main character was active in.

Thats probably the first one of your posts ive read all the way through. PREACH ON :rockin
 
stealth toilet said:
"Large paragraph goes here"

I don't think it's fair to generalise and pass judgement on them because of Manhunt,

Who said anything about Manhunt? I am generalising Rockstar all together as a company who is overhyped.

I don't agree with what you say, Rockstar is mindless and tasteless.

I don't know about you, but I think you're thinking too deeply into that Stealth. It's scary man, seriously, calm down. It's just a game.
 
I don't know about you, but I think you're thinking too deeply into that Stealth.

My entire point is that you're judging a whole shelf full of books based on the cover of one! And you barely even glossed over that cover long enough to understand what was on it!

Who said anything about Manhunt? I am generalising Rockstar all together as a company who is overhyped.

And I expressly pointed out, numerous times, how wrong doing that is. I just didn't think your views of Rockstar reflect reality, and I didn't want anyone reading this thread to get a skewed and biased interpretation of the company based on your opinions alone. It's just frustrating to see a very imaginative and capable company like Rockstar get dragged through the mud when they don't deserve it. I, and many others, love numerous Rockstar titles, and it's not because we're violence junkies. But in order to figure that out you would actually have to play through a few Rockstar games, something I'm not entirely convinced you've ever done.
 
I have liked quite a few Rockstar games, but I don't see anything really appealing about Manhunt games.
 
Mai Valentine said:
Why aren't they pushing boundaries in other areas? Story-telling, or character development, for example. Gender roles, maybe. There still isn't a really great, well-known female lead character in an action game besides Lara Croft. Ubisoft tried pretty hard with Jade from Beyond Good & Evil...too bad the game wasn't a big hit.
...Mass Effect is pushing story. So did Bioshock, somewhat. Samus is a well-known female lead, no? And Stealth, companies shouldn't try to appeal with teenagers with sex and drugs. Children have enough problems as is(I exclude myself from being grouped in with the teenagers I was talking about, as I am not drawn to a game by the height of the rating and why).
 
Mai Valentine said:
Why aren't they pushing boundaries in other areas? Story-telling, or character development, for example. Gender roles, maybe. There still isn't a really great, well-known female lead character in an action game besides Lara Croft. Ubisoft tried pretty hard with Jade from Beyond Good & Evil...too bad the game wasn't a big hit.
Yeah, like fhq said, there are plenty of games out there pushing story and character development. You yourself are excited about Alan Wake, which couldn't be more plot-centric.

As for Rockstar, I think they aren't the only ones to put a ton of drugs, sex, and violence in games (they're probably the most popular though), and I think they've made a lot of good games, but The way they implement sex, and drugs in their games is often just a tasteless hook, to get media attention, but I don't think this erases the quality of many titles they've made, particularly the GTA series.
 
stealth toilet said:
My entire point is that you're judging a whole shelf full of books based on the cover of one! And you barely even glossed over that cover long enough to understand what was on it!
But in order to figure that out you would actually have to play through a few Rockstar games, something I'm not entirely convinced you've ever done.

Why do you have to insult everyone around here Stealth? That's pretty cruel what you're saying to me. I haven't done anything to you. Again, stop taking this seriously. I'm not going to tell you again. Your attiude sucks and you need to change it, that's the honest truth. I am entitled to my opinion and if you judge people like that, like you have done unto me. I assure you, that nobody will take you seriously.
 
@Stealth. On Second thought, the only thing I'm going to tell you, is you need some changes in your life. As a friend, I'm concerned about you, you always do this to people on this forum. I ask you, why? In your post history I've noticed it alot. Don't you feel bad for what you say to people at times or does it not mean anything? Either way, I just see this bitter person everytime I see your post. I don't know your background story or life, which shouldn't matter. Yet I notice alot of sarcastic anger in each post. Seriously, I think you need to ease up Stealth, I'm being serious here.

Again, can't stress this enough, I'm only showing concern for you. It's trying not to be offensive to you, more so, a reasoning to your reactions on some things. You think too deeply into things and tend to insult people easily. Do you know what I'm trying to say?
 
Homicidal Cherry53 said:
Yeah, like fhq said, there are plenty of games out there pushing story and character development. You yourself are excited about Alan Wake, which couldn't be more plot-centric.

Yeah but for every one Alan Wake, you get like three fps games, five sports games, and four games based on movies. I'm being hyperbolic but you get what I mean, right? :)
 
Hey, what can I say, I calls'em likes I sees'em. :lol

I'm not here to rattle any chains (although I am always up for a good chain rattling, :D), and despite your personal assessment of me, I think my conduct on the forums speaks for itself. Perhaps, in this one particular thread, I have been somewhat passionate in my defence of Rockstar, as is my want to do from time to time, but I felt the severe allegations against Rockstar needed to be cleared up as quickly and pointedly as possible. If I have offended you personally, then I do apologize, but I still feel that your comments about Rockstar, at best, need revision. I'm not criticizing you, I'm criticizing your criticism of Rockstar. Or at least, that was my intention.

So, now that we're moving beyond my "sarcastic, angry, bitter, past" that is the motivation for every post I make, do you still feel that Rockstar is just pandering to the lowest common denominator, or are you acknowledging that behind the hype and shock value lies a truly fun and influential game?

And on a sidenote, to further the discussion for everyone else who is still checking this thread, GTA IV is almost here, relatively speaking. So far the screenshots they've released have looked fantastic, getting that much closer to a real live city. I pose the question to everyone, is this a good thing? I've grown up with the GTA series, when it was the overhead view and a bloody victim was no more than a flat sprite with some red pixels on it. I've watched the transition of the series into 3d, and the addition of more realistic graphics. I am truly wondering, for someone who hasn't had the benefit of the evolution of the series laid out for them, is it too much? And, can arcade style gameplay keep the game enough like a game and less like real life to balance out realistic graphics? My roommate and I were discussing this the other day, just want to hear some other thoughts on the matter.

I promise, I won't sarcastically degrade anyone who decides to continue discussing what I consider to be a very interesting and timely topic. :D
 
stealth toilet said:
And on a sidenote, to further the discussion for everyone else who is still checking this thread, GTA IV is almost here, relatively speaking. So far the screenshots they've released have looked fantastic, getting that much closer to a real live city. I pose the question to everyone, is this a good thing? I've grown up with the GTA series, when it was the overhead view and a bloody victim was no more than a flat sprite with some red pixels on it. I've watched the transition of the series into 3d, and the addition of more realistic graphics. I am truly wondering, for someone who hasn't had the benefit of the evolution of the series laid out for them, is it too much? And, can arcade style gameplay keep the game enough like a game and less like real life to balance out realistic graphics? My roommate and I were discussing this the other day, just want to hear some other thoughts on the matter.

GTA IV graphics look like a GTA III graphics...I really don't see it screaming "NEXT-GEN!", but that's just me. Ok, the graphics are a little upgraded in GTA IV, but it could seriously run on the Wii.
 
The funny thing is Iusually like violenent video games I love hitman series, own 3 Evil dead games and a bunch RE games. There is just something about this game that I really dislike probably a combination of factors excessive violence, medicore gameplay and story. Plus I firmly believe that rockstar made it more to get pubilicty about how they're pushing the envolope and how controversial they are than to actauly make anything that resembles a good game.
 
redneckgamer 213 said:
The funny thing is Iusually like violenent video games I love hitman series, own 3 Evil dead games and a bunch RE games. There is just something about this game that I really dislike probably a combination of factors excessive violence, medicore gameplay and story. Plus I firmly believe that rockstar made it more to get pubilicty about how they're pushing the envolope and how controversial they are than to actauly make anything that resembles a good game.

QFT. I mean I love violent and gory video games as well. Gears of War, Resident Evil 4, anyone? :) I just feel that in the particular case of Manhunt 2, Rockstar really wasn't trying.
 
Mai Valentine said:
Yeah but for every one Alan Wake, you get like three fps games, five sports games, and four games based on movies. I'm being hyperbolic but you get what I mean, right? :)
Oh, yeah. I understand completely. I find it nauseating sometimes, how many cookie cutter games (usually with cookie cutter stories), and mindless clones, and sequels come out.
 
Well when it comes to cookie cutter games it depends on how they are done I mean Obscure is a paint by numbers Survival Horror but they manage to pull it off really well probably aren't a ton of them thatcome out every year like with your FPS clones.
But to be fair I think Man Hunt 2 accomplished what Rock Star wanted it too it got them media attention from the local news, morning news shows, the nightly news and the cable news channels.

This whole thread as been very wierd for me I'm not used to arguing that video game is to violent all *shutters* of sudden feel cold very very cold. :help :help
 
Back
Top