March 2nd...Mircosoft unveals it's new HANDHELD device..

stealth toilet said:
If you choose a DS you have to give up great graphics. You also have to give up the ability to listen to MP3's, watch movies, etc. etc.

If you choose a PSP you're missing out on some of the best handheld games that are currently out there.

If you choose a Microsoft whatever-it-is then you'll be missing out on what the DS offers, and maybe even some things the PSP offers as well.
Best handheld games.... that key alone means that with getting the DS, you aren't missing much from any other system.

Who cares about graphics if the games aren't there. My PSP..... going into month 5 to 6 of no play. It was fun for awhile..... but it wore off. I want to go back and play some more twisted metal online though :D My DS.... gets played quite a bit because of the nice games on the system. I give 1 crap about graphics.... as long as the games keep me interested, that's what keeps me.

This new Microsoft handheld... tell me that doesn't look larger than a Turbo Express. That think looks MASSIVE. I wonder what the battery life is going to be. That sucker is just huge.

Honestly, I could care less what the handheld does. I won't be getting it.... unless something AMAZING happens with it, and it will have to be AMAZING. To me, a 3rd handheld is not worth it... and I personally think that it will get it's clock cleaned by the PSP and DS.... UNLESS Microsoft is willing to lose hundreds of millions on that system too.. to call it a success. But I guess we'll see how saturated the market is.

BV :hat
 
You dont really give up much when you choose the DS especially your hard earned money.

You do understand what I'm trying to say though, that there are pros and cons to each system. Sure the DS has inferior graphics and a smaller screen, but the PSP has a shorter battery life. I'm not saying that better battery life is more important than graphics, or vice versa, what I'm saying is that people are forced to compromise and make a choice, even though they see the pros of each.

I understand several of you have opinions on which one is best, but if there was a DS on the market that had everything it currently does, plus better graphics and the ability to listen to MP3's and watch movies for the same price, you would get it wouldn't you? If Sony and Nintendo made a handheld together that could be the outcome, wouldn't that be better for the consumer?

Money helps bigger companies innovate more because of the money they earn.

Are you saying that a company which combines Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony (say Microtendony?) would not be able to fund it's own products? Even if the fan bases of all three companies followed them?

I wish that they wouldn't and try to push the limit of every single system. I wish it was all for the love of video games, but...

But what? That statement alone is in complete agreement with me. You want what I want. Wouldn't a non competitive market make it easier for those who love videogames create them? When they don't have to worry about pushing it onto store shelves in time to rival the competitions product, wouldn't that result in a much more creative atmosphere? Wouldn't that be a good thing for the average videogame player? Isn't more competition just going to destroy the spirit of creating games for the love of it, and instead force developers to make games that are guaranteed to sell well because they need to stay competitive?

Money is what gives the freedom to do what they love for free.

Wouldn't programmers have the freedom to create what they wanted if they didn't have to worry about competing with other companies? Isn't it the pursuit of profit that cripples their creativity, that keeps them from doing what they want?

I would rather make the mistake of getting something and not liking it than getting something because I have no other choice. Like EA buying out the NFL rights....people used to have an option; they could get Madden or they could buy the 2K sports. And now the option is not there. I don't think that's very fair.

But what if Sega and EA worked together on a football game with the goal of making the best football game they could? Wouldn't that obviously be the best choice for all consumers, if the best parts of Sega and the best parts of EA were brought together?

Admittedly I am partially playing devil's advocate here. But the reason I am doing this is because I feel the other side is worth "representing." This is why most of my comments are questions, because I can't really answer them, or I can answer both equally well. So really I'm just interested in seeing how you all answer them. Although I'm pretty sure I know how creepin will answer them... :lol
 
You two should be lawyers...that'd be fun to see. :lol

On topic, I've added this system to my watchful eye. I'll be making routine check-ups on it and how it's doing. :)
 
I'm sick of crap! Stealth is right..... for once :lol :lol :lol No, but really, he does have a great point. I would add more but Stealth pretty much took the words out of my mouth here. I'm waiting for something great and this isn't it, it is however, yawn inducing...zzz...
 
stealth toilet said:
You do understand what I'm trying to say though, that there are pros and cons to each system. Sure the DS has inferior graphics and a smaller screen, but the PSP has a shorter battery life. I'm not saying that better battery life is more important than graphics, or vice versa, what I'm saying is that people are forced to compromise and make a choice, even though they see the pros of each.

I understand several of you have opinions on which one is best, but if there was a DS on the market that had everything it currently does, plus better graphics and the ability to listen to MP3's and watch movies for the same price, you would get it wouldn't you? If Sony and Nintendo made a handheld together that could be the outcome, wouldn't that be better for the consumer?
:lol I do understand what you are saying.  And actually no... a system that does it all wouldn't be good for us.  Yes, we want that, but it wouldn't be good.  Why?  Prices.
IF you had 1 system that did everything, you'd have a $300-350 handheld and no choice to get a cheaper one   IMO the DS at $125 with the best games... a  little less graphics, is a small price to pay.  Honestly, I won't watch a movie on the PSP, I have Spider-man 2 and I haven't even watched it for kicks.... although I will sometime.  Would I ever buy a PSP movie?  no.  I won't spend that much.  They are asking way too much for them... $5 is about right.  Then again, I wouldn't buy them for $5.  The DS has a lot going for it... the touch screen (very handy in Animal Crossing and I can see future RPGs utilizing this well), the Wifi is pretty good, battery life, and there will even be voice chat in games now with the mic.

Sure the PSP has a bigger screen, mp3s, and movies.....   The DS has a bunch of stuff on it's side... what is this Microsoft handheld going to do that will contribute to the market, not saturate it, and not be a total failure?

but oh well.... @ X2, get a DS on Wifi and join up on Animal Crossing with us :lol :D Stupid game..... why is Animal Crossing addictive? It still has the effect after all this time. I swear, there are subliminal messages in the trees.... or how the characters babble speak.


BV :hat
 
Strubes said:
But BV...the IPOD can go for $400 and still sells like crazy.

The $400 iPod didn't sell like crazy but the $300 did. But the thing is it does audio and video better than these do-it-all machines. Plus since it does sell like crazy chances are the consumer will already have an iPod or another digital music player. I wouldn't want to pay extra for something that I already have. Like Ive said before keep it strictly for games and have some type of portable Xbox Live and you got yourself a killer handheld.
 
I do understand what you are saying. And actually no... a system that does it all wouldn't be good for us. Yes, we want that, but it wouldn't be good. Why? Prices.

That's why I said, and I quote myself:

if there was a DS on the market that had everything it currently does, plus better graphics and the ability to listen to MP3's and watch movies for the same price, you would get it wouldn't you?

It's not that you don't want better graphics and the ability to do more than just play games on a handheld, it's just that you don't want to pay extra for it.

Sure the PSP has a bigger screen, mp3s, and movies..... The DS has a bunch of stuff on it's side... what is this Microsoft handheld going to do that will contribute to the market, not saturate it, and not be a total failure?

Which brings me back to my original point, if Microsoft manages to come up with some new and untapped area of videogames with their handheld, then to me it just sounds like it's going to open a big door for any other company who thinks they can provide for some other niche market. Is all this diversification a good idea? Why can't Microsoft come out with a handheld that's in direct competition with the other two? Or, well, in direct competition with one of them, I don't know if direct competition with both would be possible, but, you know what I mean.

but oh well.... @ X2, get a DS on Wifi and join up on Animal Crossing with us Stupid game..... why is Animal Crossing addictive? It still has the effect after all this time. I swear, there are subliminal messages in the trees.... or how the characters babble speak.

:lol Man, that game gets old, fast. Unless you love being a nice little "animal" and writing letters to everyone and picking weeds every single day whether or not you even feel like playing the game, then it's really not worth it.
 
stealth toilet said:
You do understand what I'm trying to say though, that there are pros and cons to each system. Sure the DS has inferior graphics and a smaller screen, but the PSP has a shorter battery life. I'm not saying that better battery life is more important than graphics, or vice versa, what I'm saying is that people are forced to compromise and make a choice, even though they see the pros of each.

I understand several of you have opinions on which one is best, but if there was a DS on the market that had everything it currently does, plus better graphics and the ability to listen to MP3's and watch movies for the same price, you would get it wouldn't you? If Sony and Nintendo made a handheld together that could be the outcome, wouldn't that be better for the consumer?

Of courseit would be but in all honesty that's more for a perfect world. These companies want to make money. They want their own proprietary software and hardware so that they can be the sole leaders in the industry. That doesnt mean they dont care about the customers but there own monetary goals are what drives them. That's why you have so many copy-cats when something great happens. Like a great game or a great movie, etc. That's why you have MS doing this. You are only forced if you really want a handheld. If you don't want a handheld then you don't have to buy it.

Are you saying that a company which combines Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony (say Microtendony?) would not be able to fund it's own products? Even if the fan bases of all three companies followed them?

Nope, I would never say that. Come on let's be honest even I can't refute that. It would be nice if all three companies did this but it would be hard because Im sure each company would want to innovate in it's own way and they will be stuck with hardware that they can't change unless all three agree. It's very hard to do that. When three companies do that each company can be held back creatively. Why do you think so many bands break up? Because sometimes different members want to go in a whole different direction and the only way they can do that is by going their seperate ways.


But what? That statement alone is in complete agreement with me. You want what I want. Wouldn't a non competitive market make it easier for those who love videogames create them? When they don't have to worry about pushing it onto store shelves in time to rival the competitions product, wouldn't that result in a much more creative atmosphere? Wouldn't that be a good thing for the average videogame player? Isn't more competition just going to destroy the spirit of creating games for the love of it, and instead force developers to make games that are guaranteed to sell well because they need to stay competitive?

Just because I want what you want does not mean that it will work. On paper it sounds great but like Ive said before they will be stuck with hardware that they might not like in the future. I think it would be better if companies just adopted standards, such as DVD standards, HD resolution standards, etc. That way the only thing that is different is the games and it would be easier to choose between consoles.

Wouldn't programmers have the freedom to create what they wanted if they didn't have to worry about competing with other companies? Isn't it the pursuit of profit that cripples their creativity, that keeps them from doing what they want?

Sometimes it is the pursuit of profit and sometimes it's the pursuit of making enough money to fund your creativity. For example how can someone draw if they can't afford or find some type of drawing pencil. I wish I could do things for free for the love of it, but I can't. Nothing in this world is free. Also Im not saying it's all for the love of money but competition itself to make a better product pushes innovation.

But what if Sega and EA worked together on a football game with the goal of making the best football game they could? Wouldn't that obviously be the best choice for all consumers, if the best parts of Sega and the best parts of EA were brought together?

Again on paper that sounds great but you give humanity a little too much credit. Greed and corruption are everywhere and there is a greater chance of someone breaking off and creating their own football game that they believe could be better than those other two companies. You say that people are forced to compromise when they choose a handheld, why would you want to be forced to buy the only football game? Seems like you might be a little lazy and want companies to do the thinking for you. :p

Admittedly I am partially playing devil's advocate here. But the reason I am doing this is because I feel the other side is worth "representing." This is why most of my comments are questions, because I can't really answer them, or I can answer both equally well. So really I'm just interested in seeing how you all answer them. Although I'm pretty sure I know how creepin will answer them... :lol

I all want to say is that in a perfect world your ideas would be for the better, but we're humans. Not all people like to be forced and have only one choice. Again you say we are forced to compromise, what do you think would happen if we only had one console? What's to stop them from pricing the console really high? MS and Sony are in a battle and are willing to lose money so that they can penetrate as many homes as possible. The consumer wins because instead of paying full price for all the hardware that MS and Sony have in their console, we get it at huge discounts. All this stems from competition itself.
 
stealth toilet said:
:lol Man, that game gets old, fast. Unless you love being a nice little "animal" and writing letters to everyone and picking weeds every single day whether or not you even feel like playing the game, then it's really not worth it.

Then game is not for you then. I certainly dont pick weeds everyday. Screw that. I love this game and glad I purchased it. :)
 
Strubes said:
But BV...the IPOD can go for $400 and still sells like crazy.
It's different...   it is a totally different industry and people expect different things.  

BUT... I can say that, you get AT LEAST a 40-60 gig drive (I believe).

The PSP is a perfect example... $250 is too much.  If it was $150, it would sell.  But even with what you get with the system... to people... $250 is too much.
Just listen to people talk about the PSP... you hear this common theme all the time.   BUT do you ever really hear people say the IPOD is too expensive?  Not as much...
Maybe people are saying that about the Ipod as well..... but I just don't hear it as much.  

@ stealth... there's no way they could get everything for a decent price :) it would probably be $300+ .. unfortunately.

and I am curious.... what could Microsoft bring to handheld gaming?  besides maybe Xbox Live on a handheld....   I am not trying to limit the company... but they would have to invent a lot to beat what's out there already.  

hey.... no making fun of AC.... it has addicted many many people :)  Hey... I got my good games, puzzle games, shooters...etc  I like it all.

BV :hat
 
Well...noticing how everyone around the area I live in has a PSP...I'd be willing to bet the Xbox handheld, if having all the things mentioned...would sell like crazy here.
 
You know, I was actually thinking about some of the questions I asked you guys, and the overall best answer I could think of was pretty much what you said creepin:

I think it would be better if companies just adopted standards, such as DVD standards, HD resolution standards, etc. That way the only thing that is different is the games and it would be easier to choose between consoles.

While before I was talking in complete hypotheticals, I think this would be a realistic solution to the problem of too much diversity that I was talking about. The videogame industry being relatively new doesn't really have a set guideline for systems, games, etc, which is kind of a double edged sword. On the one hand it leaves enough freedom for people to really get nuts and come up with fresh ideas (the revolution, for example) but at the same time (and especially with newer systems no longer being able to rely solely on higher specs) companies can differ from each other so greatly that the average consumer misses out on a lot when they are forced to choose only one system. Which is why, to me, the revolution is a sort of pandora's box, cuz once one company gets it in their heads to take things in a completely different direction, the industry itself has to expand to encompass a wider variety of possibilities, and it's the average consumer who ends up with the burden of paying out enough cash to support the industry.

In my opinion some kind of regulations, or even some kind of standard, should be agreed upon by the major companies. Before there was never really a need to, as the pace of technology practically dictated what the new generation of games would be. But this is obviously no longer the case, and if we are forced to pay $500 (or $400 American, whatever it is there) a system now, which is an increase of about $100 (once again, Canadian prices) from the last generation of consoles, then I greatly fear what the asking price will be for the next generation of consoles.

That being said...

For example how can someone draw if they can't afford or find some type of drawing pencil.

Well, true artists have to suffer for their work. Are videogames an art form or are they just a marketable commodity? Should their bottom line always be money? Are games that sell the most copies considered the best games? If not, then what should a videogame company aim to do, make a great game, or make a game they think will sell well? For the sake of videogame fans everywhere, I hope the latter is not the case.

Again on paper that sounds great but you give humanity a little too much credit. Greed and corruption are everywhere

So we should simply accept that things are the way they are, and accept the fact that there's nothing we can do about it, and accept the fact that there's no hope things will ever improve? It is a sad day when a person is reluctant to change the world for the better because it is not already better.

Seems like you might be a little lazy and want companies to do the thinking for you.

How very incorrect that assessment of me is.

The consumer wins because instead of paying full price for all the hardware that MS and Sony have in their console, we get it at huge discounts. All this stems from competition itself.

But these companies also spend massive amounts of money competing with each other. With all the time, and energy, and money that goes into events like E3 where each company is trying desperately to gain potential customers and fans of other systems, wouldn't it all be better spent making games? Wouldn't that bring down the cost of hardware and software for the consumer?

and I am curious.... what could Microsoft bring to handheld gaming? besides maybe Xbox Live on a handheld.... I am not trying to limit the company... but they would have to invent a lot to beat what's out there already.

Perhaps they won't bring in anything new. Perhaps they're strategy is to simply do what the other companies are already doing, except they will do it better. At least, that's what I would like to see happen.

And as a final comment:

Not all people like to be forced and have only one choice.

Even if it is widely regarded (almost indisputable) that it is the best choice? Wouldn't it be for their own good to be forced to make the best choice?
 
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halo2/news_6145278.html

*UPDATE MARCH 2nd* This is NOT a portable Xbox system...it's pretty much falls under the portable PDA/PC/Labtop genre..
 
stealth toilet said:
Well, true artists have to suffer for their work. Are videogames an art form or are they just a marketable commodity? Should their bottom line always be money? Are games that sell the most copies considered the best games? If not, then what should a videogame company aim to do, make a great game, or make a game they think will sell well? For the sake of videogame fans everywhere, I hope the latter is not the case.

Ive already explained that yes money is involved and that sometimes it is not money that is the bottom line but the competition itself. That's what I was trying to explain in my post. Artist, or developers, who want to do something better is because they feel what is out there, quite bluntly, sucks. Now that's not always the case either, but usually it is.

So we should simply accept that things are the way they are, and accept the fact that there's nothing we can do about it, and accept the fact that there's no hope things will ever improve? It is a sad day when a person is reluctant to change the world for the better because it is not already better.

Ha, come on you read my post in your canadian politics thread. We can change people in power and companies in power but greed, corruption, etc. are inevitable. It's something that you can't change in the world. Believe me I wish we could but it's one of those things you can't. I never said it can't work at one point but there is always that chance of those things happening.

How very incorrect that assessment of me is.

It was joke hence the smilie at the end. But just an assessment I made. I wasn't saying you actually were.

But these companies also spend massive amounts of money competing with each other. With all the time, and energy, and money that goes into events like E3 where each company is trying desperately to gain potential customers and fans of other systems, wouldn't it all be better spent making games? Wouldn't that bring down the cost of hardware and software for the consumer?

Depends. It depends on what the companies agree according to the technology they want to use. What if they all agreed to use Blu-Ray. What if they all agreed to use some new technology that isn't out yet. So it can either work for the consumer or against. Again what's to stop them from pricing really high or gouging you with prices.

Perhaps they won't bring in anything new. Perhaps they're strategy is to simply do what the other companies are already doing, except they will do it better. At least, that's what I would like to see happen.

And so will I but usually what happens in a monopoly situation is that companies know there is no competition so they usually try to take advantage of the consumer. It's happened before and there is a strong possibilty it could happen again. I'd much rather have companies try to outdo each other and force each other to do better rathar than being one company and not knowing if they'll be corrupt or not.

And as a final comment:

Even if it is widely regarded (almost indisputable) that it is the best choice? Wouldn't it be for their own good to be forced to make the best choice?

Again that's assuming if there is a best choice, but how can we know if it's the best if we have nothing to compare it to?
 
Ok, enough of this back and forth banter. I agree competition is a good thing, but for different reasons than you, I think. Anyway it doesn't really matter, this topic has really spun out of control as far as our discussion goes. :lol

And so will I but usually what happens in a monopoly situation is that companies know there is no competition so they usually try to take advantage of the consumer.

All I'm gonna say is, if you think a monopoly has to take place before companies try to take advantage of customers, then you are being naive.

Of course, practically everything I've said so far in this thread has been extremely naive, so I can hardly point out the speck in your eye, as it were. I do think that regulations should be in place though, maybe even one standard system that each company individually produces games for. I mean, it is always about how well games stack up against each other right, so why not just do something like that?
 
stealth toilet said:
All I'm gonna say is, if you think a monopoly has to take place before companies try to take advantage of customers, then you are being naive.

I dont think like that either, hence why I brought up the whole greed and corruption argument. It's everywhere and not everyone is as honest as we would hope for them to be.

Of course, practically everything I've said so far in this thread has been extremely naive, so I can hardly point out the speck in your eye, as it were. I do think that regulations should be in place though, maybe even one standard system that each company individually produces games for. I mean, it is always about how well games stack up against each other right, so why not just do something like that?

Well I agree, it's a good idea, I just dont think it would work in the long run.
 
stealth toilet said:
But what if Sega and EA worked together on a football game with the goal of making the best football game they could? Wouldn't that obviously be the best choice for all consumers, if the best parts of Sega and the best parts of EA were brought together?

But see the problem with that would be that not everyone likes the same things in a football game, so even if that were to happen, who is to say that the consumer would be satisfied? Maybe what EA thinks is the best part of Madden is something that a Madden fan actually doesn't like.

There will never be a perfect game because people have different tastes. That's why having a choice is better, IMO.
 
Looks cool as a PDA replacement, maybe copetition for Blackberry, but way too advanced for IPOD, GBA, DS or PSP...

Looks huge too... laptop, not handheld... At least the video clip had cool music so I wasn't too bored watching people network wirelessly... whoo...
 
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