Personaly I hope Obama gets the Democratics nomination I believe he would be much better than Hillary.
On the Repbulician side I tend to favor McCain.
On the Repbulician side I tend to favor McCain.
SpartanEvolved
SpartanEvolved
America is pretty much the least secular state in the history of secular states. If Obama could change that, I would love him for ever.
Looking at a candidate's religious affiliation is unfortunately the only way the voting public can gauge at particular candidate's integrity. One could spend millions of dollars and say they make every attempt at doing right, but it seems that the public believes more if they hear that their choice attends a Christian church. Not based in fact, it just seems that way...
What more facts do we need than the USS Cole? A bombing that killed U.S Navel personnel by people claiming to be followers of Islam. The WTC was bombed in the 90s by a group that claimed to be followers of Islam. Ever wonder what happened to TWA after one of their planes was bombed above Scotland? They closed. Responsibility claimed by followers of Islam. One could see daily reports of bombings in Iraq, Israel and other places in the Middle East. All claimed by followers of Islam.
My point is not whether these terrorist groups follow the truest precepts of the Islamic faith. My point is that the American public is sick of seeing such acts carried out by religious fanatics. The likelyhood of a candidate taking the presidency while claiming to be a follower of Islam is highly unlikely. Discrimination, unfortunately, is fed on acts that are horrible and factual...
My opinion on who should win the presidency? I am leaning towards McCain. I claim no affiliation to any party. I just don't trust Clinton. And unfortunately Obama hasn't said anything that piqued my interest.
What more facts do we need than the USS Cole? A bombing that killed U.S Navel personnel by people claiming to be followers of Islam. The WTC was bombed in the 90s by a group that claimed to be followers of Islam. Ever wonder what happened to TWA after one of their planes was bombed above Scotland? They closed. Responsibility claimed by followers of Islam. One could see daily reports of bombings in Iraq, Israel and other places in the Middle East. All claimed by followers of Islam.
My point is not whether these terrorist groups follow the truest precepts of the Islamic faith. My point is that the American public is sick of seeing such acts carried out by religious fanatics. The likelyhood of a candidate taking the presidency while claiming to be a follower of Islam is highly unlikely. Discrimination, unfortunately, is fed on acts that are horrible and factual...
My opinion on who should win the presidency? I am leaning towards McCain. I claim no affiliation to any party. I just don't trust Clinton. And unfortunately Obama hasn't said anything that piqued my interest.
stealth toilet
Moderator
Dart said:
But by that stretch of logic a person claiming to be a Christian would have just as many violent acts to answer for. Martyrdom is not something that belongs to any one religious organization. There have been many atrocities carried out under the banner of "Christianity" that are not representative of the religion or the vast majority of its followers. If religious zealots, extremists, and fanatics are something you're sick of seeing, then I must ask you how long you plan on looking away from American citizens who are no less guilty of being zealots, extremists, and fanatics, as those around the world.
Once again, I did not expect such a deliberate response. I'm not questioning your beliefs, but I am interested in understanding how they can be so obtuse.
Absolutely untrue, especially in this particular case. Discrimination stems from manipulation, rhetoric, selectivity, and ignorance. In no way is what you see on the news of unstable areas in the middle east representative of the region as a whole, nor is it in any way an accurate representation of the majority of people who live there. Once again, by that logic one could claim the Jewish race to be full of violent extremists, constantly performing violent acts because their religion tells them to. Just because the news highlights a fanatic who partakes in an act of violence along the West Bank and claims to be Jewish doesn't mean the religion is to blame, nor should it have any bearing or be given any thought when a presidential candidate claims to be of the same religion.
Discimination is most often the product of misinterpretation, or malevolent misrepresentation. What more facts do you need than the USS Cole? How about the fact that over 1/6 of the world's population is Muslim, and that the majority of Muslims live in India and Indonesia, two countries that aren't exactly known for daily suicide bombings. Rather, India is known best for ahimsa, non-violence, and the last greatest violent act to take place in that country was a massacre instigated by supposed Christians (British). What about the fact that hundreds of millions of muslims live in peaceful co-existence with each other and people of other faiths. Its not exactly a fact you'd hear about on the evening news, but it is certainly one you need to know about in order to put an incident like the USS Cole into context.
I'm sorry Stealth. I wasn't clear in my use of the word "discrimination." I should have used "distrust" instead because I was speaking specifically of the things that are shown or written about in the news in regards to Islamic extremists. My explanation would have been better had I used the right wording.
You bring up another topic. "Martyrdom" in it's strictest definition is to die for your faith. Nowhere does it mean murder for your faith. Not a single Muslim who straps bombs to his waist and walks into a crowded street is a martyr. He is a murderer. I'll go into better detail:
A Christian who dies for his faith is usually killed by a mob of people who don't want to hear his message. Only the one who dies for his faith is killed. A true martyr by definition.
A Muslim wakes up in the morning, straps on a belt that has a few pounds of explosives on, it, and walks to the corner market where 200 people are gathered. He walks in their midst. He detonates his bomb, killing 50 and inhuring 90 more. By definition he is a suicide bomber. A murderer. And will be judged as such because he took 51 lives by choice.
And again, I am using the Islamic extremists as examples because by default, we do not see or hear about the millions of Muslims who are non-violent.
And this is what I mean when I say I am not surprised when people label Obama a Muslim and are turned off by it. Because that is what we see on a daily basis.
You bring up another topic. "Martyrdom" in it's strictest definition is to die for your faith. Nowhere does it mean murder for your faith. Not a single Muslim who straps bombs to his waist and walks into a crowded street is a martyr. He is a murderer. I'll go into better detail:
A Christian who dies for his faith is usually killed by a mob of people who don't want to hear his message. Only the one who dies for his faith is killed. A true martyr by definition.
A Muslim wakes up in the morning, straps on a belt that has a few pounds of explosives on, it, and walks to the corner market where 200 people are gathered. He walks in their midst. He detonates his bomb, killing 50 and inhuring 90 more. By definition he is a suicide bomber. A murderer. And will be judged as such because he took 51 lives by choice.
And again, I am using the Islamic extremists as examples because by default, we do not see or hear about the millions of Muslims who are non-violent.
And this is what I mean when I say I am not surprised when people label Obama a Muslim and are turned off by it. Because that is what we see on a daily basis.
stealth toilet
Moderator
Dart said:
Gotcha.
Well, once again, I could point out hundreds of instances where Christians have killed in the name of God as well. My word choice of the word martyrdom has led to a similar misunderstanding that we shared with your invocation of the word discrimination. I was just trying to say that Muslims aren't the only people who kill other people because of their faith. Every religion has its share of fanatics and extremists who twist belief systems and end up convincing themselves and others that violence is somehow the answer. So I guess I can agree with everything you said except for:
Because that is exactly the type of fact selection and misrepresentation that leads to discrimination. Many self proclaimed Christians have led entire nations into bitter warfare in the name of God. They have encouraged and carried out acts of torture, barbarism, and unconscionable cruelty. I agree that these people are extremists, aren't true Christians, and do not fall under the title of martyr, but they certainly do exist, whether or not the evening news decides to show it.
Islam has been given an incredibly bad rap because, as is the course with any war, propaganda is used to help demonize the enemy and gain support for the war effort. Just as Goebbels ensured the German population was bombarded with sounds and images that made the Jewish race seem inferior, subversive, and conspiring, so has the American media ensured that Muslims are viewed as inferior, violent, and fanatical.
I guess I'm just trying to say it is irresponsible to let such blatant lies trick you into believing a presidential candidate that belongs to Islam should be disregarded in the running.
This isn't necessarily true. To give you an example, Shiite Muslims, who died during the Iran-Iraq War were hailed as martyrs because they gave their lives in fighting to defend what is basically the center of Shiite Islam (Iran). Basically, they were dying, and, at times killing, for the survival of their religion.Dart said:
However, the killing of innocents is as much condemned in mainstream Islam as it is in mainstream Christianity.
This I completely agree with. There are many, on both sides who twist around the words of the Quran/Bible, and use it as justification to murder, or start wars.stealth toilet said: