Who are your favorite SSBB characters to use?

I believe a better term would be "backwards progression". Basically, it's how the game's played in comparison to Melee. In melee and most other fighters, the game started out with the "metagame" consisting of major amounts of defense, with shots being taken during periods of vulnerability. Eventually, combos developed and the game truly developed into what it is today, with almost every character having some sort of awesome combo.

Brawl, sad to say it, won't have any of this. Such a fact is unavoidable.

Why? Attacks have no hitstun. You can air-dodge almost immediately out of any attack, in comparison to Melee where different moves had different amounts of hitstun. Granted, yes, there is hitstun in the game, but it's negligible in comparison to other fighters. So, Gimpy and some of the pros think that the game starts out with "combos" being developed, but that's because of the immaturity of the community. Most all "combos" in this game are caused by techchasing, mindgames, and plain dumb luck. One can see this taking place right now. The community hasn't found more than a handful of true inescapable combos. You can count the number true combos on one hand, though. A combo, by fighting games' standards, requires hitstun. Supposedly, everyone will eventually discover that playing defensively the entire game and camping is the way to go... and that's how the "metagame" is supposed to develop. All will just stay back and camp. At least, according to Gimpyfish. I really don't trust his opinions anymore, because I disagree that this will happen.

If you wanna read up on this, there's a topic about it on Smashboards.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158791

Also, on that tier list: lol @ sheik being D tier. I'd love to challenge anyone here who thinks that's her rightful position. :p And the fact that Gimpy placed his own main, Bowser, in the F tier shows that he's also trying to show off a bit with this list. :/ Bowser's definitely not bottom tier anymore.
 
personally i don't care about smash boards, or tourneytards or gimpsy or whoever, they are just mad because brawl is not melee 1.5. i joined another forum with a decent ammount of competitive players and i'm happy with it (i don't say wich one becuase it breaks the rules of the forum)

i say tiers are useless because characters are for the most part balanced and what makes a character good or bad is the user itself. i mean i have got my butt kicked with the lowest tier characters and some people can't even play with the highest tiers.
 
Zidart said:
personally i don't care about smash boards, or tourneytards or gimpsy or whoever, they are just mad because brawl is not melee 1.5. i joined another forum with a decent ammount of competitive players and i'm happy with it (i don't say wich one becuase it breaks the rules of the forum)

i say tiers are useless because characters are for the most part balanced and what makes a character good or bad is the user itself. i mean i have got my butt kicked with the lowest tier characters and some people can't even play with the highest tiers.
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Allisbrawl? It's not bad to post site names here... we just don't like advertising. :p

And I think your definition of "tier lists" is a bit different than most, Zi. Tiers aren't absolute; they change constantly, depending on the skill of the community. It's basically a who-has-been-proven-to-be-good-as-of-late list... which characters have been doing the best in tournaments. The great thing about SSB is that any character can be played... the difference that it makes is the player himself (save for certain high-tier combos). One could win a pro tourney with Pichu in Melee and get him bumped a few tiers up, even. It's all about the users... not statistics.

I would rather wait for the official tier list to come out. Believing in Gimpy is a really bad mistake.
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Sadly, he's one of the people helping with making "official" tier lists... :p All the pros influence tiers immensely.
 
You may find them useless but, say if someone wanted to get into Brawl tiers are a way for a newcomer to the series to see how the game works. Plus, what Kirby said.

kirbyrockz said:
Sadly, he's one of the people helping with making "official" tier lists... :p All the pros influence tiers immensely.
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And he was the only one out of the Brawl Pro's that stood out.
 
>_> never mind is just my lack of knowledge of the competitive language.... i think i'm a casual gamer when it comes to brawl (though i don't know if beating intense boss battles puts me in the casual area XD).

and no. it's flash revolution forums, there's quite a few pro's there that love brawl but i should check out a few other sites as well.

there's thousands people in this world, if the top brawl players go bac to melee that wouldn't affect me for 2 reasons
1. i'll never be able to beat them
2. they don't waste time with "noobs"
 
Sheik got massive aerial nerfs, enough to really hurt her, especially considering the game is a lot more aerial. Diddy is so high up because he has a small hitbox, he's quick, and has little lag. Bowser was thought to be getting better until it was discovered L-canceling died. Ike is much too slow and has too much attack lag to be very high. Yoshi's working his way up, but not a lot.


Plus, it's an early tier list.
 
Interesting that Diddy's high up because he's quick and hard to hit, and Ike is down on the list because he's slow. Ike is slow, yes, but that's because with him you don't have to hit often to hit hard. Plus he has a counter, an invincible up B, and a quick/ranged side b. The trick to using him effectively is simple: force your opponent to fight hand to hand with side b, counter when you anticipate a smash attack, and exploit hesitation with Ike's three hit combo. Ike is a slow character, but he's got enough moves with enough speed that any opponent has to respect his quickness, and any good Ike player be quick to punish any slip-ups.

Diddy's quickness and small hitbox are good for 4 player Brawls where a changing course have to be taken into account, but one on one with him is difficult. He has no quick smash hits, and is hard to use against ranged characters. While he may be able to rack up some damage up close and use his bananas to force opponents into positions they'd rather not be in, he relies heavily on their mistakes in order to land a decent smash attack.

I think Gimpy, whoever he is, is valuing sheer speed over everything else. I think ignoring range, power, and the ability to pull off a quick smash attack is a big mistake.
 
If he's valuing speed, explain F Tier Sonic. Ike is down not just because he's slow, but his attacks are predictable.
 
fhqwhgads said:
Sheik got massive aerial nerfs, enough to really hurt her, especially considering the game is a lot more aerial. Diddy is so high up because he has a small hitbox, he's quick, and has little lag. Bowser was thought to be getting better until it was discovered L-canceling died. Ike is much too slow and has too much attack lag to be very high. Yoshi's working his way up, but not a lot.


Plus, it's an early tier list.
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But that's all statistics... I've heard it said countless times, and I agree -- Brawl's the most balanced of all three Smash games. It's the player, not the character. And yeah, I know about her nerfs... I play her all the time. But I know she's definitely not second-lowest tier. Bowser's still great, too. Seen any of Gimpy's vids? Since the game's all about mindgames anyway, he's beast. xD

And an early tier list? In order for it to be an early tier list, one can infer that a complete one is coming, right? Otherwise it wouldn't be "early". But tiers can't be "complete", because they're always changing. Thus, this is just a "current" tier list from Gimpy's perspective. Unless you're simply referring to the fact that this is an "early" list because the game is so brand new... in which case, I think a month's long enough to get a general idea of who is good with who... that's just IMO, though.

I steer clear of most tier discussion... but Gimpy's list intrigues me.
 
I generally avoid tier lists as well, mainly since I hated Fox and Marth in Melee. And even now. I laughed when I thought of Fox without wavedashing.
 
fhqwhgads said:
If he's valuing speed, explain F Tier Sonic.
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I honestly can't. :lol

If Diddy makes it to the A tier by fast and hard to hit, shouldn't Sonic be up there with him? That's why I think this list is kind of wack, and why I don't really understand why some characters are so privileged over others.

I do understand Pit and Game and Watch at the top though. Every move Game and Watch has is a smash attack, and Pit's bow and recovery is relentless...
 
stealth toilet said:
I honestly can't. :lol

If Diddy makes it to the A tier by fast and hard to hit, shouldn't Sonic be up there with him?
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Like I said, Diddy also has extremely low attack lag, and his dash attack can go right into another move.
 
Am I the only one who really doesn't care about tiers? The fact that aleeock can own with Yoshi, who is in tier F proves, to me at least, that they really don't matter.
 
As has been stated repeatedly, tiers matter when there's no items, a basic stage that both characters are even on, only in one vs ones, and the two players are of equal skill.
 
Man... Gimpy is just... I don't know what to say. He's been acting very negative lately... keeps making stupid posts, too. I've had a couple little argument things with him today...
 
fhqwhgads said:
As has been stated repeatedly, tiers matter when there's no items, a basic stage that both characters are even on, only in one vs ones, and the two players are of equal skill.
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there's no such thing as 2 people with the equal skill, i mean they have to be twins to be able to do that >_> and besides a person might learn how to overcome the weakneses of the character.

or do you want me to make a point by a final destination battle, without items and such?.

well kirby maybe if you showed us what he's saying XD. my wildest guess is that he doesn't want people playing brawl because is not like melee
 
Well, only one thing he said was relevant to the discussion... the rest was just different stuff.

Post-- Re: Does winning on Wifi prove any skill?

winning online or in brawl gives no bragging rights whatsoever, that's why you say "no" in response to this question.
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