Neo Geo CD Harware CD Z
- Thread starter kuk
- Start date
no no i want REAL information for the CDZ...
not estimation or rumor, for exemple:
which was a double speed system that played all Neo Geo CD games.
Nobody have information of that
The Front-loader (left) is classed as extremely rare - only 25,000 models were ever made. This machine was the original Neo Geo CD - it was released before the popular Neo CD top loader
it's not wright
etc etc
not estimation or rumor, for exemple:
which was a double speed system that played all Neo Geo CD games.
Nobody have information of that
The Front-loader (left) is classed as extremely rare - only 25,000 models were ever made. This machine was the original Neo Geo CD - it was released before the popular Neo CD top loader
it's not wright
etc etc
Dr_Ackula
kyuuketsuki
kuk said:
OK first off, there is no double speed system. The CDZ still has a single speed drive. This is not a rumor or estimation. The CDZ loaded games faster because it had a larger cache of memory.
Secondly, as far as I am concerned the information all contained there is correct. I have seen nothing to prove otherwise.
If you feel that the info on the site is not incorrect then please provide proof of this.
But I can assure you it is correct.
Hello
at this time, nobody have prove if the cdz have
a double speed cd room
a better cache of memory
the two of that
Chris Mullins say it's no a double speed CD room, but nobody know how many bettre cache the memory have
for the 25 000 cd 1 it s the good number, but people dont't ask the good question: how many Neo Geo CD SNK had buit ???
at this time, nobody have prove if the cdz have
a double speed cd room
a better cache of memory
the two of that
Chris Mullins say it's no a double speed CD room, but nobody know how many bettre cache the memory have
for the 25 000 cd 1 it s the good number, but people dont't ask the good question: how many Neo Geo CD SNK had buit ???
Dr_Ackula
kyuuketsuki
kuk said:
Use common sense about CDrom drives and RAM. This will answer your question.
If you install Unreal Tornament on your PC with a 1x drive will the game load any faster when you play it? Of course not. But if you bump the amount of RAM you have up then it will load faster.
CD drive speed has less to do with loading data into ram, and more to do with how fast it access the information being loaded.
The NGCD loads all the program information into RAM and then plays the audio tracks right off of the CD. So the speed of the drive itslef would have alot less to do with the load times than the amount of RAM would.
More RAM means more room to load the data, and faster access of the data after the initial load. With a CDZ the load times are much quicker after the initial load because it can access the program information thats stored in the cache faster.
Bluevoodu
Site Founder
Dr_Ackula said:
I do understand that totally... but doc, I gotta be honest on 1 thing here... I have tested out 15+ CDZ's... and I have noticed faster initial loads than the toploader.
I am going to do some testings with the stop watch and see.
but wouldn't that indicate a faster drive IF the initial load is faster than the toploaders?
I know the CDZ is about the ram.... they increased it. But do you think there is a way the could have increased read speed?
†B†V† :hat
I apologize if I sound like I am trying to start a flamewar here, but I think Bluevoodu is right. The CDZ has to have a double speed cd drive for there to be any real difference in load times. Even if the drive had an insane cache increase, like 8 megs, the initial load times would still be no faster than the original. The bottleneck would still be data coming off the cd itself, and it wouldn't fill the first load any faster. While newer games might be smart enough to cache extra data, games made before the CDZ shouldn't see any improved load times during the game either with more cache. The CD could cache more data, but each game would be different, so anything it caches would be like taking a shot in the dark.
For example, take a game like KOF96. If you have Terry fighting Geese, the NeoCD isn't going to know ahead of time if you are going to win or lose, so it has no idea which character to load into the cache for the next fight. Plus CD Audio reads at 1x, so while its playing music, the drive can't load anything else.
For any pre CDZ games to use more cache effectively, they would need their program code patched. Since the NeoCD BIOS is only 128k, there is no way it could contain the information needed to patch every game.
For example, take a game like KOF96. If you have Terry fighting Geese, the NeoCD isn't going to know ahead of time if you are going to win or lose, so it has no idea which character to load into the cache for the next fight. Plus CD Audio reads at 1x, so while its playing music, the drive can't load anything else.
For any pre CDZ games to use more cache effectively, they would need their program code patched. Since the NeoCD BIOS is only 128k, there is no way it could contain the information needed to patch every game.
Dr_Ackula
kyuuketsuki
Welcome to the boards and thanks for your take on all this. That sounds very reasonable, you obviously know a good bit about the technical aspects, more so than I 
The only thing though..you mentioned pre-CDZ games not using more of the cache....how come they still load faster in the CDZ?
The only thing though..you mentioned pre-CDZ games not using more of the cache....how come they still load faster in the CDZ?
Dr_Ackula said:Welcome to the boards and thanks for your take on all this. That sounds very reasonable, you obviously know a good bit about the technical aspects, more so than I
The only thing though..you mentioned pre-CDZ games not using more of the cache....how come they still load faster in the CDZ?
Thanks for the welcome
The only way I can think of for older games to load faster would be a faster cd drive. Since the load times page shows the CDZ loading everything in half the time or less, it has to be a double speed CD drive in there. SNK probably gave the new drive a faster seek time also, so it can find the actual data faster, which lets some of the games cut another second or so off on big loads.
My two cents:
If the CDZ only had more RAM compared to the stantard system, it would access the RAM less frequently, so the load times would be less numerous but not shorter as the CD drive would read data at the same speed. Instead we see that initial load times of a CDZ are almost half than those of a standard system (this can't be due to a bigger RAM as it starts empty in both cases). I think it really has to be a faster drive, either a 2x or more advanced one.
If the CDZ only had more RAM compared to the stantard system, it would access the RAM less frequently, so the load times would be less numerous but not shorter as the CD drive would read data at the same speed. Instead we see that initial load times of a CDZ are almost half than those of a standard system (this can't be due to a bigger RAM as it starts empty in both cases). I think it really has to be a faster drive, either a 2x or more advanced one.
Bluevoodu
Site Founder
Rainman said:
I am starting to think that it has a faster drive as well.
I tested one out here and the initial load times are faster.
Does any one know for sure?
the CDZ could have a faster drive AND more ram....
It may not be a 2x... maybe a 1.5x or something :lol
Bv :hat
I think it's more an issue of seek time. If the ram only allowed room for one sector, you would have to wait until the NGCD cleared the RAM, and then wait until the next sector spun back under the laser.
If you doubled the ram, you would reduce the number of waits for the sector to spin under the laser.
The transfer time from CD RAM to internal ram is almost definately way less than the seek time of one setor.
If you doubled the ram, you would reduce the number of waits for the sector to spin under the laser.
The transfer time from CD RAM to internal ram is almost definately way less than the seek time of one setor.