I Hate Nintendo

Nephlabobo said:
Please don't.
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you don't want your best friend here?
:lol really... you 2 are a like.... and I don't mean that in a bad way.

I don't know if we could handle neph and solinari being here at once :lol ... I think world war 3 would be started.

†B†V† :hat
 
stealth toilet said:
They're only alike in the fact that they're not Nintendo fans. Aside from that, I don't know if any other parallels can be drawn.
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What happened with Satori? I must have missed that whole part. Is he also a PS2 fan? I thought I remembered him not liking the XBOX? Or is it the reverse?

Cause if he's pro-XBOX...IMO we could use an XBOX fanboy. That would even it out a little. You got me and BV for the Nintendo fanboys and Neph for Sony, and no one really championing for the XBOX. :lol
 
Ya, Sartori was an Xbox fan. He argued a lot with people over it, especially with people like Neph. I liked Sartori and wish he stayed cuz he added a lot to the board.

He was very arrogant though, and never conceded anything. He liked to start arguements just for the hell of it all the time. I think he left for some self-righteous reason too. I can't remember exactly why, but it was done in a "you'll all regret not being nicer to me" kind of way.
 
I agree. I downloaded a Genesis shmemulator the other day and I haven't thought twice about it. Playing all those games I used to play but can't anymore on my broken Sega is so much fun. As well playing the classics that I never had the chance to buy, like Shinobi 3, is freaking amazing. I tell ya, I never truly appreciated the days when developers had to rely on creativity, solid gameplay, and thought out level design to make a game sell.
 
Sort of back to the topic...there was something I wanted to address.

No offense s_t but to me this just looks like you are joining those legions of mainstream gamers...
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You say that like its a bad thing. Games are popular because they're fun, they're not fun because they're popular. If playing videogames that appeal to a lot of people makes me a mainstream gamer, then yes, I can proudly say I am. Why would I limit myself to unpopular games that no one wants to play?
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There was this one guy who owned a Gamecube, but he wanted Halo 2. So we mentioned that Halo 2 was only for the XBOX, but that he might like Resident Evil 4. He bought it, but then decided to bring it back, because he wanted to rent it first.

Being mainstream is bad when you don't buy RE4 because it's not Halo 2. RE4=Halo>>>>Halo 2. I thought the first one was a lot better, and it disappoints me that people will pass on Resident Evil 4 because it's not Halo 2.

It's also bad when people pass on a great game like Tales of Symphonia because 1) it's cel-shaded, which is not popular with the mainstream 2) it's not Final Fantasy, which is popular with the mainstream, and 3) it's on the Gamecube, which is not popular with the mainstream.

Mainstream gamers are the reason why really awesome/fun games like Katamari Damacy, Ico, Eternal Darkness, etc. are practically ignored.

I'm starting to think that the Revolution could be the greatest system ever but it wouldn't matter because no would one care because it wouldn't have the latest GTA on it.

(edited for clarification purposes)
 
I think its bad that people think that the Gamecube is kiddy

I was talking with our rep... and they said that many developers are stearing away from the Gamecube because it is geared more for kids.

I will never get that.

I totally wrote back to them telling how these companies are mis-informed.

but hey... its their wallets that are going to be missing the money.


†B†V† :hat
 
I think its bad that people think that the Gamecube is kiddy

I was talking with our rep... and they said that many developers are stearing away from the Gamecube because it is geared more for kids.
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It's a fact BV, plain and simple. If you don't believe me listen to the easter egg that happens when you turn on your GC holding down the z buttons. Look at the GC's library of games. Look at Nintendo's official magazine, Nintendo Power. Look at the color the GC launched in.

Nintendo makes their games and systems for a younger audience. They still make good games, yes, but they are aimed at kids 14 and under.

Even if that weren't true (obvious evidence says it is!) it doesn't matter now. The majority of people do see it that way and there's nothing Nintendo can do about it. They may as well cater to the younger audience because those are the only people buying their products.

It's also bad when people pass on a great game like Tales of Symphonia because 1) it's cel-shaded, which is not popular with the mainstream 2) it's not by Square Enix, which is popular with the mainstream, and 3) it's on the Gamecube, which is not popular with the mainstream.
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I've said this before numerous times but I will reiterate. In response to point 1, it's a lot more fun to control characters that look real than ones that look like a japanese cartoon (yes that's an opinion but as you yourself stated its a popular one). In response to 2, not many people pay attention to who developed what. The hardcore gamers that actually pay attention to developers would recognize Square Enix as a good company and all the casual gamers wouldn't recognize the name and thus wouldn't pass up the game based on the company. In short, the name Square Enix has a very small negative effect on sales. In response to point 3, the GC is not popular because of the image it has earned for itself. In conclusion, its Nintendo's fault it can't appeal to the mainstream gamer, not the mainstream gamer's fault for liking other games as your post suggested.

Perhaps if Square Enix wanted Tales of Symphonia to sell better they should have made a better game and released it on a better system. Drop the kiddy graphics and release it on all three systems. Good games are popular, there's a direct relationship between the two. If a "great" game doesn't sell well then obviously it was missing something from being truly great. Sure a good game flies under the radar once in awhile, but you never see a crappy game sell well.
 
but you never see a crappy game sell well.
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Yeah you do. Look at Enter the Matrix.  :p Or all of the licensed games like Barbie or the Mary Kate and Ashley games.

I've said this before numerous times but I will reiterate. In response to point 1, it's a lot more fun to control characters that look real than ones that look like a japanese cartoon (yes that's an opinion but as you yourself stated its a popular one).
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That part I don't think I'll ever understand. A great game can be cel-shaded. But I think people are so stuck in a mindset like yours that they would never realize it.

Perhaps if Square Enix wanted Tales of Symphonia to sell better they should have made a better game and released it on a better system. Drop the kiddy graphics and release it on all three systems
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I happen to think Tales of Symphonia is one of the best games ever, but your statement is exactly what I'm talking about. I bet you didn't even play it because it's cel-shaded. Am I right?

And if that's the case and a lot of people think like that, how would they know it's a great game? They never look past the exterior to even try it.

You said it yourself: good games fly under the radar sometimes; and half the time it's because of quick judgements on the game such as it being cel-shaded or being on the Gamecube, but they never even actually tried the game before passing judgement on it. That's how the mainstream is though. Me, I prefer to actually try games before I say anything.
 
Yeah you do. Look at Enter the Matrix. Or all of the licensed games like Barbie or the Mary Kate and Ashley games.
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I thought Enter the Matrix was fun, especially for any fan of the movies. It had one of the best plots, and some of the best voice acting I've ever seen in a videogame. I also refuse to believe that Either of those other 2 games mentioned sold well at all.

A great game can be cel-shaded. But I think people are so stuck in a mindset like yours that they would never realize it.
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Yes a great game can be cel-shaded, but cel-shading can also keep a game from being great. And its not so much a "mindset" as it is a preference. I don't like anime, never have, never will, so why would I enjoy playing a game that looks like one? And I did actually play it once when my friend rented it. I liked the gameplay as it reminded me a lot of Seiken Densetsu 3, but the presentation and overall RPG-ness of it made me pass it up.

good games fly under the radar sometimes; and half the time it's because of quick judgements on the game such as it being cel-shaded or being on the Gamecube
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Some good games get overlooked for a ton of different reasons, regardless of their graphic style or the system they're on. That being said, there's a ton of games out there that most people will never have the money or time to play, so when making a choice on what game they're going to buy everything matters. The cover art, the description on the back, advertisements seen on TV, and yes, even the look of the game (it is a videogame after all, shouldn't the graphics be important?) can make possible customers look at another game instead. At the moment the public's eyes are turning to games that look realistic and not cartoony. I happen to agree with them. If that makes me an evil corporate judgemental mainstream gamer, then so be it. I work hard for my money and I'm not going to spend it on a game that drops the ball in any area, especially the visuals.
 
I work hard for my money and I'm not going to spend it on a game that drops the ball in any area, especially the visuals.
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People say that but then they still buy GTA games. I dare anyone to say that San Andreas couldn't use help in the graphic area.

I'm not picking on you specifically stealth. But honestly, how can graphics whores own a PS2 at all? Wouldn't they just go for the XBOX if that was the case?

There has to be something other than graphics that makes people buy certain popular games. There's also the gameplay, for example. Most people are willing to ignore the graphical issues of GTA because it's easily overlooked due to the other excelling parts of the game.

Unfortunately, most games don't get cut slack in the graphics department like GTA.
 
The Easter Egg is that if you hold down the Z button whilst the Gamecube logo comes up, it plays some very retarded, childish noise.
 
stealth toilet said:
Sure a good game flies under the radar once in awhile, but you never see a crappy game sell well.
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All I've got to say about that remark is this.... Grand Theft Auto VC + SA

Two of the absolute worst games I have ever played, graphics wise, control wise, and they are also some of the buggiest games I know of.

Good games do not sell well...pop culture does. GTA SA for instance apeals directly to the massive MTV generation of hiphop thug wannabe's. The did minor graphic updates to a years old game, added bicycles, and parachutes, infused it with stereotypical "thug life" and sold it like it was going out of style.

Its sad as hell to me people do not realize this game is just a minor upgrade of VC pumped full of the pop culture crap that most teens, college students and some adults who live and breath crap like MTV will love. If MTV and the media told us that country/western music was "cool" then Rockstar would have made GTA Nashville! Rockstars games have always been subpar pieces of crap, and thanks to people who love their violent pop-culture they will keep churning out crap like this and making millions.

So I have to disagree with Stealth...crappy games do sell well...look at any Rockstar game, Enter the Matrix, all the GTA clones like True Crime, Getaway, ect. Not to mention pretty much every liscensed game like Mai stated....and theres more ..but I'd have to think on it a bit..I tend to avoid crappy games...or forget them soon after playing them.
 
All I've got to say about that remark is this.... Grand Theft Auto VC + SA

Two of the absolute worst games I have ever played, graphics wise, control wise, and they are also some of the buggiest games I know of.
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If you, in all honesty, played these games and did not have fun, I feel sorry for you. The reason why GTA is such a popular game is because it gives you the opportunity to break the law without actually breaking the law. GTA is popular for the same reason movies about gangs, smugglers, thieves, and such are popular, because people want to be them. The graphics although sub-par are an adequate medium to live out these criminal activity fantasies. The style is completely appropriate for the game, and it does what it is intended to do: provide a world to reak havoc in.

GTA SA for instance apeals directly to the massive MTV generation of hiphop thug wannabe's.
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True. But ask yourself why the "thug image" is so sought after. What teenage male doesn't want to live life on the edge, break the law, make some money, and be an all around bad@$$. I'd rather pretend to be that character in a videogame then some cartoonish 12 year old boy who I thought was a girl for the first 6 hours of the game. But beyond that San Andreas also allowed you to do other things, like multiplayer for example, or the ability to customize your character in hundreds of ways. What game wouldn't benefit from those upgrades? As well the city was about a billion times larger then VC, drive-by's were a lot smoother, planes and such were added, new weapons available, eating system incorporated, etc.

So I have to disagree with Stealth...crappy games do sell well...look at any Rockstar game, Enter the Matrix, all the GTA clones like True Crime, Getaway, ect.
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Enter the Matrix was for fans of the movies. If you are a fan of the movies and found no enjoyment in that game, then I think you need to find a new hobby. The Getaway was possibly one of the best scripted games I'd ever played. Playing through as a criminal first and then the cop who's after that criminal was a stroke of genious. The various gangs involved were all extrememly convincing and the story was compelling the whole way through. True Crime was a game that needed some graphic upgrades and the gameplay could have been a little more polished, but playing a game where you're a renegade cop was too much fun to resist. High speed chases, hostage situations, and multiple ways of dealing with street crime was something that drew you into the game completely. The addition of the story continuing whether or not you succeeded the mission was something I think all games should do. You got one shot at being the good cop so you had to think on your feet and actually fear dieing in a level. Rockstar games have always been solid, from Smuggler's Run to Evil Kneival (spelling? hell, it might even have been Super Dave, I can't remember) for the GBA. They've always had top notch physics for vehicles and great game ideas.

The 3 games you mentioned were not bad games. They all had strengths and weaknesses but they were all fun in one way or another. They sold well because they let you step into the shoes of characters that people actually wanted to be. Cops, crooks, and superhumans were popular characters for movies, books, comics, and TV shows long before MTV came around, and they will be for a long time to come. These games let you not just watch or read about these characters, but you could actually be them. In other words, these games are a lot of fun.

Anything that sells well has a reason for it. Whether it be a solid product, or great PR, it found an audience. If a videogame can't find an audience then there's something wrong with it. In the case of TOS the graphics alienated it from a large audience because no one wants to fight cartoony monsters with cartoony characters who aren't even old enough to get into a PG 13 movie. Get over it.

Sorry if I come off as a bit of a prick. Believe it or not this thread is actually really fun for me, so keep posting, and don't reserve anything for fear it might offend me, because it won't, and apologies if I have offended anyone.
 
I don't have a good reply for you Stealth...theress really nothing you could say to make me think that GTA SA is not one of the worst games of all time. And yes I have played them ..all of them. I was forced to play GTA SA when it came out with my little brother..basically just for the satisfaction of trying like hell to figure out what people like about this game. I completed the game...big ending there too..so many hours of play just to kill a cop.

You ask why the thug image is so sought after..I have no idea at all...I have never desired to be poor and destitute surviving in the streets by going on crime sprees and killing for apparently no reason. Asking me that question is about the same as asking me why people like rap music...I have no idea honestly...

As for the so-called new features of GTA SA..they are very small additions that would be an add-on pack for Vice City at best if it were a PC game only. Stop lying to yourself...theres nothing new here thats not been done before in the series except parachutes, bicycles, and stat improvement. Oh yeah and I forgot ..the wonderful gameplay addition of changing your clothes and haircuts...never seen that in a game before have we? Oh and I forgot about eating food...which is the replacement in this game for health icons...thats really new too isn't it? Never saw people eat food to get health in a game...

I'm not arguing over TOS here..I have never even seen the game...I'm arguing that bad games do sell well...its just the same as all popular media..if its popular and shoved down your throats by the media..it is not nescasarily good.

And you speak of cartoon graphics...man...GTA is like a parody of real life..its graphics look aweful..not at all realistic..except the cars. The people in the game are stiff, barely animated carictures of stereotypes. Theres nothing more cartoony to me than carictures of stereotypes. If you really feel like GTA has a good graphics engine, man I feel sorry for ya..it was dated and terrible back in GTA 3..and it has barely changed at all since then..the Dreamcast has better graphics than that.
 
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